I was once a newbie fighter. I pretty much learned a lot through PAL but realized that that wasn't the best way for me to learn. I found the right teachers and here I am. A grant level fighter teaching others to fight without the process of PAL. For the most part, it's working for us, too.
Re: FightingsoldiergrrrlFebruary 19 2009, 15:57:38 UTC
It is working, and honestly, there are times when I learn as much from the living room sessions and I do from anything else.
Part of what bothered me was the fact that this person seemed gleeful about the fact that they were just smearing the newbies and "won" a lot of fights that way.
That's like saying I "won" a photography contest if my competitors are 15-year-old novices with disposable cameras.
Re: Fightingchuckles48February 19 2009, 17:42:09 UTC
This person should think strongly about handing in his belt. He sure doesn't merit wearing it any more (assuming, of course, that he has one in the first place).
Re: FightingdiermuidFebruary 19 2009, 19:24:54 UTC
I'll note that in the Path To Knighthood as I have seen it at times, one philosophy is to always play at your top end. Never make the mistake of 'playing down' to weaker opponenents.
To be fair, in 'combat', this is certainly a fair sentiment, there is no room for being 'nice' if your goal is to dominate. This is the path to winning tournaments and crowns. Although being too fierce also tends to cause a Karma Check on many fields, as I understand that some associates have entered tournaments not because they wanted to win, but because they wanted to 'vote' someone else out.
Locally, they tend to run the high-end sticks at one end of the gym, while noobs get to train with experienced but not-rabidly-ambitious fighters.
It is surely not chivalrous behaviour to gloat about slaughtering noobs, but depending on who is around it may or may not be acceptable.
I can completely understand where you are coming from. It's like teaching a kid chess, checkers, or any other game. Repeatedly trouncing them will do nothing to make them love the game. They have to at least win occasionally, or it becomes to fustrating.
I remember one time in Amtgard when a newbie froze up in battle and squeaked out don't hit me. I took her aside and showed her how to better defend herself. She was much more comfortable on the field from then on. Sometimes, you just need to build people's confidence.
When I was on about my third game, someone suckered me with a cheap setup and checkmated me in something like three steps.
Evidently, it's something more experienced players don't fall for, but since I had been playing for about an hour, I did, and I felt absolutely set up.
It was a cheap, bullying thing to do, and I've never played chess since then.
This is why I don't play any board games that have less than about 8 players. If there's 8 player and one is a swaggering dishonorable bully, some of the players can form a temp alliance and mop the floor withthe bully and then get back to enjoying a game. My dad and my bro#1 beat me until I just gave up. I don't wanna be a dead baby seal or a practice dummy either. It warped my brain. My DH was going to teach me chess for real, in an honorable way and I still froze up like a deer in the headlights. We have 2 amazing chess sets that would be great fun, but I just can't do it. The voices in my head won't let me, and I've been to both Gulf Wars! Chess still scares me more than gunfire. Go figure. Newbies have feelings. Sometimes enough feeling to give up and never go back.
Yep. If I didn't live with two fighters, one a grant-level fighter, and if I hadn't run into some folx who think that they're supposed to teach the newbies instead of collecting scalps, I'd have walked off the field and never come back.
We've been dscussing some similar things, and I think it goes beyond fighting, too.
We need to nurture new people, to move them along.
I also think that good fighters, after they toast you say five times because your shield is too low, oughta say, "Hey, let's try this with your shield a little higher."
Members of Chivalry, I believe, has the *rpesonsibility* to help people improve theri fighting, whether the person is their squire or not.
Yeah, I can't quite tell where this person is from, or if they're belted, and I do not want point any fingers, so I'll just say I agree with your comment.
Beating the crap out of newbies just because you can is dishonorable. It reflects very poorly on the fighters doing it. It also makes me wonder about their character in their lives off the field.
According to a classic chivalric ideal, even bragging like that about winning a lot of fights just because you could is just un-chivalrous. Even if he helped people afterwards, it's the bragging that's troubling.
I'm sure you didn't expect to win every fight. That's because you have honor. You just expect an honorable chance at doing the best you can. Bad behavior on the part of the more experienced fighters can deny you that chance.
If we're going to play at bringing back the best parts of the medieval period, people need to work a little more at having some knightly virtues. If the good parts of The Dream don't illuminate our behavior, then what is the point of all this?
(And yes, you can tell I'm having one of those "I miss the SCA" times.)
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I was going to post the same thing, but it would have taken me more words.
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I understand your frustrations.
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Part of what bothered me was the fact that this person seemed gleeful about the fact that they were just smearing the newbies and "won" a lot of fights that way.
That's like saying I "won" a photography contest if my competitors are 15-year-old novices with disposable cameras.
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To be fair, in 'combat', this is certainly a fair sentiment, there is no room for being 'nice' if your goal is to dominate. This is the path to winning tournaments and crowns. Although being too fierce also tends to cause a Karma Check on many fields, as I understand that some associates have entered tournaments not because they wanted to win, but because they wanted to 'vote' someone else out.
Locally, they tend to run the high-end sticks at one end of the gym, while noobs get to train with experienced but not-rabidly-ambitious fighters.
It is surely not chivalrous behaviour to gloat about slaughtering noobs, but depending on who is around it may or may not be acceptable.
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I remember one time in Amtgard when a newbie froze up in battle and squeaked out don't hit me. I took her aside and showed her how to better defend herself. She was much more comfortable on the field from then on. Sometimes, you just need to build people's confidence.
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When I was on about my third game, someone suckered me with a cheap setup and checkmated me in something like three steps.
Evidently, it's something more experienced players don't fall for, but since I had been playing for about an hour, I did, and I felt absolutely set up.
It was a cheap, bullying thing to do, and I've never played chess since then.
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Oh, I'd still sew and play, but not fight.
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We need to nurture new people, to move them along.
I also think that good fighters, after they toast you say five times because your shield is too low, oughta say, "Hey, let's try this with your shield a little higher."
Members of Chivalry, I believe, has the *rpesonsibility* to help people improve theri fighting, whether the person is their squire or not.
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I'm not saying I expect to win every fight, or that I expect more experienced fighters to let me win, but c'mon...
Granted, I don't know how much time this person took with the newbies they beat to explain what went on and how to fix the holes in the defense.
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I'm sure you didn't expect to win every fight. That's because you have honor. You just expect an honorable chance at doing the best you can. Bad behavior on the part of the more experienced fighters can deny you that chance.
If we're going to play at bringing back the best parts of the medieval period, people need to work a little more at having some knightly virtues. If the good parts of The Dream don't illuminate our behavior, then what is the point of all this?
(And yes, you can tell I'm having one of those "I miss the SCA" times.)
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