The problem with good-by-definition groups

[smurasaki]

 
The idea of an organization whose members are all, by mystical powers or by definition (or both), inherently good crops up here and there in sci-fi and fantasy, but that idea has never quite set right with me (even though it turns up in fiction I like). Perhaps the best known examples that I’m familiar with (and I’ve no doubt there are even more I

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[smurasaki]

Indeed. If Lucas had shown the Jedi righting small wrongs that the Republic was ignoring, he'd have done a better job of making the Jedi look Good. And of pointing out that the Republic had problems. And we really needed to see more clearly that the Sith are Evil, not just that Palpatine is. (And there is a difference, especially when the Jedi aren't coming off so hot.)

It's possible to do Good vs. Evil with proper complexity, but I'm not sure you can if your characters know (and are always right) about which side they're on. Good can have doubts about even genuinely Good organizations, depending on their personal feelings and the rules and such, never mind that Good can discover that they're actually working for cleverly disguised Evil. And, besides the obvious doing Evil in the name of Good, Evil can work for a Good organization and do Evil on the side. And so on and so forth.

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[bellatrys]

Dr. Castillo wrote in court documents that her husband had threatened to make her suffer by killing the children.

As far as I can tell, looking at the real world, most people who have committed evil (or even Evil) acts were doing so for some kind of personal gain or because they thought they were doing Good.My problem with this is, anybody whose "personal gain" comes from tormenting other human beings - well, that's what Evil looks like. "I beat my girlfriend up because I just wanted to feel better about myself, so that means I'm still a Good person, right?" "I just wanted to feel better about myself, so I killed my girlfriend's cat and told her daughter I was going to kill her and her mom, but that doesn't make me Bad, does it?" (Yes, that's another court case I read about yesterday

Re: Like this guy?

[smurasaki]

Ah, communication failure on my part, I see. No, I believe in evil and Evil, just as I believe in good and Good. However, if there is a cosmic force of Evil, it's a right sneaky bastard who's very good at convincing people that self interest, greed, and power are perfectly in keeping with being a good (or even Good) person. I'd agree that your examples are all evil/Evil acts, but I don't believe that the people committing them think that they are - along with most other people who do evil or Evil.

The problem is that, in fiction, all too often the forces of Evil are presented as knowing they're Evil. That's where my disbelief factor comes in. I just don't think Evil generally goes "Because I'm Evil, mwahahahahaha!" Well, the cosmic force of Evil might, but not to its followers.

And, given that Evil doesn't announce itself, Good has to work harder to address the problem without looking bad in the process. Which would be why so much evil and Evil happens in the world. *sigh*