Comments | slashpine: DH review from CSM (SPOILERS): A Story is About Moral Struggle & Change

slashpine

DH review from CSM (SPOILERS): A Story is About Moral Struggle & Change

Jul 27, 2007 23:56

Hmmm. Is this reviewer a fan, or just a very astute reader who should be? And a Snape-centric one, at that.

Snape: the authentic protagonist ( Read more... )

review, dh, ethics, char devt

Comments 16

tsh9s July 28 2007, 08:09:12 UTC

Thoroughly enjoyed reading this, and find myself agreeing with the reviewer on many points.

Where, indeed, have all the real protagonists gone? While the 'First principle of storytelling' does not necessarily a story make, it certainly helps in an epic series.

Thank you for sharing this~

quivo July 28 2007, 12:15:43 UTC

This is pretty much exactly how I felt about the review, down to this point:

While the 'First principle of storytelling' does not necessarily a story make...

I think the reviewer is a leetle too caught up in the 'there must be a moral' train. A better way of saying it might have been 'there should be a character arc'. There are many ways of evolving a character, and not all of them involve Hard Moral Choices. And frankly, I think I'd stop reading books if they were all written about characters making Hard Moral Choices. Hard Choices are enough, and depending on your character, they can run the gamut from the choice to kill to the choice to betray your best friend by telling her secrets to that popular girl even though you know she wouldn't sell you out like that.

slashpine July 28 2007, 15:57:47 UTC

Oh, you are so right! When I first led a recitation section in Ethics, that distinction was hard to get across: there were a lot of students who thought that Moral Choice is, Does Movie Hero Kill The Dude or Not? (It doesn't help that most ethics books give life-or-death examples too.)

It's those little choices that are the real moral killers - when your BFF cackled with glee about how she just changed the headers and turned in her same paper from last year to this year's history class, do you say anything? How about when you were in the same class, and you spent 5 days on it and got a C while she got an A? (Or you both got A's, but others didn't ...)

Or the whole "con-crit" vs. "mindless squee" debate.

One of the first things in DH that bugged me was Ron boasting to Harry about his "How To Get Girls In Bed" book. "And Rule 4 says tell them lots of lies! Chicks love that!" And I thought, if Hermione Granger falls for this, I'm gonna roll my eyes at her and Ron both. And Harry, for buying into it ( ... )

quivo July 28 2007, 20:00:24 UTC

It's those little choices that are the real moral killers
Exactly! And really, societies usually ignore those in favour of bigging up the life/death, love/not love crap because the latter seem to matter more. Which is silly, because I can't count how many times the little things someone says or does turns me completely off them, or how I still remember the small things, cruel or kind, that people have done to me and to others I know.

And about the suddenly-supposedly-suave!Ron, I just tried to ignore the blatant stupidity there. X(

... well, I do get the feel that the Trio are Marauders redux, no growth (i.e. morality, or if you prefer, thoughtfulness) required
Exactly, again. I think she may have tried to go for growth- just not the type of growth that we as readers find laudable or even truly credible. That the Marautrio was where she wanted the Trio to end up, sort of.

I think a LOT of fanfic is going for growth type 2, because the evidence for growth/change inside the story is so weak, or erratic.That makes a huge amount of ( ... )

Thread 5

featherofeeling August 4 2007, 05:42:50 UTC

I've seen you around recently on others' LJs, liked your comments, and came over to say hi. *waves* I'm glad to have seen this. Mind if I friend you?

I think a LOT of fanfic is going for growth type 2, because the evidence for growth/change inside the story is so weak, or erratic.

I agree with this (and with much of the discussion above). I read fic that centers around Draco and the Slytherins for external "reader" growth, a deeper understanding of the story by looking at themes from another angle. I love reading about Harry being forced to re-examine his assumptions about them, because it requires a deeper reading by the author and the reader into the non-main characters and critical examination of the point of view of the main character. It feels like I'm maturing myself when I do that. And, of course, I read Snapefic because his character arc is so much more satisfying.

slashpine August 4 2007, 21:32:04 UTC

Hi yourself! thanks for the comment and the compliments ( ... )

featherofeeling August 8 2007, 21:30:57 UTC

Sorry it took me so long to reply up here! I do love to discuss meta and fandom theory. I mostly like to have comment discussions in other people's journals, as I'm new enough to LJ and to fanthropology that I don't feel comfortable making full posts too often. Quite frankly, it's more interesting coming over to other people's houses and engaging there. ^_^ Speaking of, am engaging with your ideas more in comment below this one ( ... )

featherofeeling August 8 2007, 22:00:57 UTC

So what you said made me reflect on why I’m in fandom, and this ended up being rather long. Apologies in advance!

The parallels you mention make sense, although I don't know much about science’s engagement with the public, so I can only respond to them from my perspective. I find it interesting to see how environmentalists or health advocates conflict with tobacco farmers, fishers, etc. I think some of the conflict is about the issues and some of it's between the groups' cultures and what they both represent to one another--urban intellectual elites who don't understand our livelihood and values vs. selfishly stubborn people who can't grasp that they're going to destroy the environment!

The fan-public who...recognize perhaps better than the author (aka scientist) that their "genius" is embedded in culture and often merely reflective of social values and structures -- hardly independent of them, and often uncritical tooThis resonates well with the Harry Potter series right now. We fans respond to the tension between the values ( ... )

Thread 9

featherofeeling August 8 2007, 02:41:53 UTC

Oops! Just friended you and will un-flock that (it's nothing special, though). As a former lurker and a sometimes still shy person, I would encourage you not to f-lock your whole journal, though. Backing it up=good, posting warnings on profiles...but I'm hoping there won't be too much locking going on in the aftermath of this. I might de-lurk and write about my convictions on public posting in a bit, but meanwhile here's a really interesting perspective on it: http://bottle-of-shine.livejournal.com/221071.html

slashpine August 8 2007, 03:29:38 UTC

Cool! To the friending, the advice, and the link! bottle-of-shine always makes good sense.

I'm actually posting as much or more over at IJ now, and thinking about Xposting to GJ and JF. I'm slashpine everywhere. I'll have to read this latest fiat from 6A and see where folks are going to go.