Worse than I thought

[skellington1]

I thought I'd get through ME3 before posting about issues I have with Joker and, of course, EDI. I thought I'd managed to avoid some of the Joker/EDI nastiness by shutting her down hard early on. I was pretty thankful for that, actually.

But I thought wrong.

Last night I triggered the ambient dialogue wherein Joker is basically asking Mordin

Comments

[evilsherbear]

I didn't get that dialogue (thankfully). I just didn't take EDI with me anywhere. I felt sort of guilty because I still like her character, just not the over sexed body and the Jokermance.

Is it just me or are everyone's boobs bigger in ME3?

[skellington1]

I didn't take her with me -- I got that ambient by walking into the Normandy med-bay while Mordin was there. That's all it took.

And it's not just you, everyone has bigger boobs.

[evilsherbear]

I honestly tried to just give it a shot, but it just bothered me, especially after getting shot down by Joker (ranks is the worst excuse). It does seem like you're supposed to laugh AT that relationship at points, but it feels mean spirited, not like when Mordin tried hooking Eve and Garrus up.

[skellington1]

Yeah, 'mean spirited' is totally the thing. The entire crew makes comments about it, and it all feels like pointing and laughing, not cute cameraderie.

And then the slap-in-the-face rejection. I'd have rathered just not bringing it up, so I could have some canonic ambiguity.

[baxaronn]

oh my fucking god.

I missed that dialogue in my first playthrough, and I'm glad I did, because I would have flipped to hear it without warning. I'm going to flip hearing it even with warning, but there might at least be less shouting. Maybe.

I... I can't even wrap my head around the thought process that would lead to someone thinking that's a good idea. Especially because there are ways in which Joker is really well-written - there isn't any doubt that he knows his limitations, he knows what he can and can't do, he deflects the hell out of everything with humor, which takes a level of self-awareness that is completely fucking contradictory to "lol how do I sex". And even if he wasn't - I'm younger than he is. I'm so virginal I attract unicorns, for fuck's sake. And I still have a very good idea of how I could go about having sex without hurting myself, because I know how to do everything else without hurting myself. Much. Most of the time

[skellington1]

I suspect my thoroughness is exposing me to more of it than people who play quicker.

And I still have a very good idea of how I could go about having sex without hurting myself, because I know how to do everything else without hurting myself.EXACTLY

[baxaronn]

It is nice to connect with people. I've had more and better talks about disability with people in ME fandom than I've ever had elsewhere, and I'm incredibly thankful for that, even if some of what's bringing me to these discussions is awful shit I don't want anything to do with.

(I think this hit me harder today than it would have otherwise because I've been roleplaying with someone who gets it. I've been writing Joker for hours on end and processing all these feels through him, and it's so wonderful... and then there's the reminder that I'm writing this character better than canon did, and that the source material doesn't entirely get it, and ugh. Dammit.

Why do you do this to me, Bioware. ;_; )

[skellington1]

Your last paragraph really nails it, I think.

We take off our armor to A) talk about it at all and B) especially, oh so especially, to write about it. You peel off layers you didn't know were there. That opens you up for taking the hits harder, too.

As far as affirmation/understanding, it's painful to see it offered, start to hope, and then have it crash down around you -- maybe especially when you didn't realize you were looking for it until the 'hope' part.

[baxaronn]

Strengthening exercises? Pillows? I'm supposed to believe that Joker has no fucking idea that his muscles can get stronger, and that sticking pillows in strategic places is a foreign concept? That isn't "a little weirder," that's something he's probably been doing for years in bed because it's really nice to not have sore spots grinding into the mattress!

(guess who found the video on Youtube with all of Joker's banter in it.)

(This is funny, because I just wrote Joker sweet-talking Vega into helping him create a pillow nest in the med bay. Guess I'd better apologize for that post. He's obviously never seen a pillow in his life and certainly would never think to use them as a buffer between hard things and hurty things. )

(I'll shut up now.)

[skellington1]

Yes, that's the EXACT conversation I'm thinking of. BECAUSE SOMEONE WITH A CONGENITAL PROBLEM WOULDN'T HAVE HEARD OF PHYSICAL THERAPY. OR BASIC PROBLEM SOLVING. FUCK.

Note to writers: Anyone with Joker's condition has been doing PT (and probably occupational therapy, as well) since he was too young to remember it.

Okay, okay, we're probably just ramping each other up at this point, but... argh. It's hard to have so much emotional load with no way to really let it out.

[stasia]

*blink*

I'm ... um, what's the term? Body-typical? (On the assumption that neuro-typical is the word for me as well, so ..)

Anyway, I'm body-typical and I use pillows for comfort in bed and on the couch and everywhere else pillows could be used. And there are specially shaped pillows designed for use in sex, for people of every type of body.

I don't get it.

Stasia

[skellington1]

Yeah, I... I'd explain, but none of us get it, either.

And I think 'able bodied' is frequently used, though personally I rather like 'body typical' -- since having a disability does not make you disabled in all areas, any more than having a physically 'normal' body makes you magically capable. Iffin that makes sense. I've had quite a bit of booze.

[virusq]

:|

I took EDI with me everywhere. I couldn't bring myself to leave her on the ship alone with Jeff. I just ... couldn't let that happen. That said, she's a very competent squad member. And she didn't mention their relationship outside of the bar/cockpit. (At least not for me.)

(There were a few weird glitches where EDI was in my party and also in the cockpit? So I'd talk to EDI in the shuttle and then I would talk to her over the comm from the cockpit. ...or, in one case, she was in the ground crew for Grissom Academy and ALSO in the cutscene in the cockpit... Which ... makes me think that SHE WASN'T SUPPOSED TO BE A SQUAD MATE. EVER.)

But. Yeah. I was hoping that conversation had been removed. I saw it in the script and it was just horrid. I thought it was a joke, honestly. Like they were just trolling for reactions. When I didn't trigger it in game, I was relieved. But it's ... there? Still? And they want me to laugh at this? Really?

What the hell, people?