Comments | sistermagpie: Terrorists and Teachers

sistermagpie

Terrorists and Teachers

Jun 24, 2011 16:38

Sorry, more X-Men thoughts. People keep having cool things to say about the movie, I can't help it! This is partly related to an exchange in my last entry about how we get more of a sense in the movie why people go with Magneto than we do why people stay with Charles, and also related to some comments I've read where people just don't get why ( Read more... )

meta, x men: first class, movies, comics

Comments 13

etrangere June 24 2011, 20:48:59 UTC

Fascinating post.

sistermagpie June 24 2011, 21:42:34 UTC

Thanks!

dungeonwriter June 24 2011, 21:29:13 UTC

Erik is shown as someone who did practice Judaism, at least as a child. His happiest memory was Hannukah, and he quotes Jewish scripture "And to them will I give in my house and within my walls a memorial and a name (Yad Vashem) that shall not be cut off" from Isaiah when he talks about their names being taken away.

And the imagery of the Nuremberg defense "Following orders,' the quoting of "Never Again," to me, the Judaism was very apparent.

sistermagpie June 24 2011, 21:42:17 UTC

Oh yes, I know--I wasn't clear. I know that Erik actually is Jewish and that he was practicing at least during his childhood because of the flashback. But I meant that the way he approached the Mutant problem also seemed to relate to the way Judaism approached the problem of life in the book. The problem is exile, the solution is return to God. The way Erik approaches the Mutant problem seems to most fit that same conflict. He's been exiled from the safety of home and family (first quite literally by Nazis) and he wants to make a safe home that the Mutants deserve.

So it does match his actual religious background, but I didn't know it was going to before I thought about, if that makes sense. Like with Erik I suspect he would match up with one or a few of the Eastern religions (a lot of his lines have a Buddhist sound to them, though I don't think his philosphy matches up to Buddhism as Erik's does to Judaism), but I'm sure Erik's religious upbringing was probably Anglican.

glitterdemon July 4 2011, 19:54:22 UTC

I think in your last paragraph you're meaning to say Charles where you're saying Erik, re: Buddhism/Anglican?

sistermagpie July 4 2011, 20:34:30 UTC

D'oh! Yes, you're absolutely right. I meant Charles. I am constantly writing the wrong name with those two for some reason. Thanks!

horridporrid June 25 2011, 00:09:21 UTC

I like how you break it down: Erik as Leader; Charles as Teacher/Visionary.

I wonder though - couldn't you say Erik is a visionary too? That he's leading his group towards his own vision of the way things should be? (Mutants in total control of the world and therefore safe.)

I think a difference, that may fall along the Leader-Teacher line, is that Charles has a vision of how things should be despite the prevailing human wisdom of the time that humans will always fear and repress the 'other'. (Not that this isn't also a current idea, but in the early '60's with Hitler so recently defeated and the Cold War burning towards hot, it's especially highlighted.) Whereas Erik has a vision based on how things areSo Erik is a Leader because he's accepted that things are the way they are. His group is looking to carve out their life in the 'real world'. And Charles is a Teacher because he's believes the current world-view can be changed. He'll show his people how to get there, but keep them safely hidden away from the 'real-world' in the ( ... )

sistermagpie June 25 2011, 02:53:50 UTC

Yes, and I totally meant to write that and I forgot it--grrr! Yes, there is definitely crossover. Erik does have a vision that he is selling to his followers the same way Charles is, and Charles leads as well. I mean, how could Erik lead anyone with no goal, especially one that wasn't inspiring and bigger than all of them ( ... )

horridporrid June 25 2011, 05:48:41 UTC

It's interesting because, while I do think the beginnings of a line has been drawn, there's not that same... Well, like with Shaw, you know he was never going to be a part of Charles' ideal. (Nor Erik's, despite some similar views or visions - he broke faith with Erik about as hard as you could.) But I feel like, with Charles letting Raven go with Erik, that there's still a sense or a feeling that someday they'll rejoin. Like Erik has to go out with his group and do his thing and then... something will happen, and then he'll come back to Charles. (I can see Charles drawing up a list: "1) Erik gets his excess energy out, 2)???? 3)Family again!" *g ( ... )

fanaddict July 1 2011, 17:18:19 UTC

Have you ever watched Star Trek DS9? My shiny new thought about X-Men is that Magneto is Section 31 to the X-Men's Federation ( ... )

sistermagpie July 2 2011, 02:18:46 UTC

I haven't seen DS9 in so long--unfortunately I totally don't remember what that is! But I totallly agree with everything you're saying here--I think that's definitely the way it seems to work. It's not that the two are always battling each other to a stalemate and that's how they balance each other, it's more like they do both think they're mostly working towards similar goals and feel the need for each other even if they don't always put it in those terms.

I don't know XMen comics that well but from what I've read that sounds exactly like what CX is like. That there's definitely times where he'll keep secrets or do wildly questionable things in secret.

fanaddict July 2 2011, 18:13:42 UTC

I loved DS9 for its moral ambiguity and long story arcs. Anyway, the idea for Section 31 was that the Federation is an idealistic government system (that's mostly an oxymoron in RL, sadly) and thus the people in charge would never dream of doing anything shady - right makes might in their mind, and everyone will see their way eventually. Section 31 is the blackest of black ops, more covert than any other program - if you know about it you're either in it or about to die/get mindwiped. The idea is that some Statfleet/military types believe in the Federation's ideals, but not in everyone else's willingness to play by the rules to gradually let those ideals become the norm among Federation enemies. So Section 31 was unofficially created to do the dirty work that kept the Federation and the Federation's ideals when the enemy played dirty.

It's not that the two are always battling each other to a stalemate and that's how they balance each other, it's more like they do both think they're mostly working towards similar goals and feel ( ... )

sistermagpie July 4 2011, 19:09:43 UTC

Oh wow, that's really perfect. I have no problem at all imagining Xavier liking having a group like that. I just read a recap of the movie that pointed out how their philosophies aren't really *that* different, since Xavier will be ruthless when it comes to protecting mutants. It's more like he'd rather do it without bloodshed. Definitely a good analogy, and they totally do seem to value each other almost above everyone else. They wouldn't be able to do that if they really saw each other as against them.

And no problem with the friending--welcome!