I had the revelation today (still probably old news, but I liked it) that the freedom to choose is equivalent to the freedom to say No. If something is illegal, then choosing not to do it is no longer a matter of morals, but a matter of the law. If being good is about morality, then the "good" people are legislating themselves into mediocrity. Nobody gets medals for NOT killing people. And if there were a law requiring every citizen to risk their own lives to save others, there wouldn't be medals for heroism, either.
That's absolutely true. I've always thought that's what's so odd when some people think that, for instance, their religion means that wherever they go everyone else should cater to their specific views. Like if they don't believe in alcohol, no alcohol. Which always seems to completely miss the point--if the point is that you're abstaining, then abstain. It's not abstinence if it's not there!
Not to mention that when an activity is permitted, it can be regulated. Abstinence-only sexual education fails because it divides the issue into only two states: you're not having any sex, or you're doing it wrong. The implication is that if you're doing it wrong, the procedure doesn't matter, so there's no point in using protection. Likewise, prohibiting perfectly safe activities like prostitution and marijuana use prevents those who practice them from exercising the constraints that would MAKE them perfectly safe - supervisory boards, legal protections, consumer advocacy, and taxation. I bet black market drug pushers would long for the days when the DEA was after them, once they get the IRS on their case.
Like if they don't believe in alcohol, no alcohol. Which always seems to completely miss the point--if the point is that you're abstaining, then abstain. It's not abstinence if it's not there!I think in their eyes alcohol\abortion\smth else may damage one's soul and\or hurt somebody else (abortion, f.e.). That's why they don't want other people to drink\have abortions\etc. They don't want them to get hurt or hurt others. I don't think all such people are bad people. Religion influences one's worldview in numerous ways. Would you really be for X, if X sent people to hell forever
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Are the votes for Prop 8 already counted? I haven't seen any results anywhere.
Anyway, whichever way it goes, it's heartening to see that the vote was so close. It's only a matter of time before the supporters of gay marriage outnumber the opponent, both in California and elsewhere.
When I woke up this morning they said it was too close, but I've seen elsewhere that it passed--narrowly. Which is already progress. I think the percentage of people against gay marriage was significantly higher just 8 years ago.
I'm extremely disappointed by the vote on 8 in California, but I realize that the people who voted for it did so out of fear. If you look at how the vote broke down by county, the places with large numbers of gay people voted against 8 and for marriage rights. It's a matter of familiarity breeding respect and concern. I think it's just a matter of time before the dignity and rights of all humans are codified... it's just going to take time and the willingness of those who support gay marriage to make their voices heard. An Obama presidency is giving me the hope that we'll get there.
As for those who say Californians vote for rights for animals and not for people, they are not the same thing! The comparison is driving me crazy.
Thank goodness parental notification for abortion is going down to defeat in California, for I believe the third time in a row. At least the right to make some important life choices is being supported by voters.
I agree. It's always that way--which is why if you live in a place where there are plenty of gay families sometimes it's even hard to figure out why anyone would be against it. On the 'net I've had crazy conversations with people who tell me all about how gay people are that do not match the reality at all. As S Colbert says, "Reality has a well-known liberal bias!"
But I was glad about the abortion law too--it does seem like they're just going to keep putting that on the ballot in different ways until they get what they want. (Hopefully never.)
A referendum on this kind of thing doesn't always work. Imagine if they'd had one on interracial marriage. It never would have passed. I believe in letting the people decide, but sometimes this isn't the way to do it, because there's too much misinformation, prejudice, and downright hatred out there and it tends to colour the opinions of even well-meaning people. The Court said same-sex marriage was constitutional and the government should have left it bloody well alone.
I live in Massachusetts and I notice that the sky is still firmly in place after several years of gay marriage. And gee, heterosexuals are still doing it. Surprise!
ETA: I love that Colbert line. I keep meaning to put it on my LJ profile page.
Yes, I remember someone mentioning that they tried to take some comfort in the fact that people had to make up lies to find reasons to vote for the thing.
I have totally noticed that about Massachusetts. It seems the same as always. Not only are straight people still marrying, but I have not yet heard about those dreaded man/cat marriages that were supposed to come with gay marriage.
Not only are straight people still marrying, but I have not yet heard about those dreaded man/cat marriages that were supposed to come with gay marriage.
A friend of mine teaches at a college downtown with a big African American population and it's a class where they talk a lot--she said tone of the things that seems to be a given amongst her student is that homosexuality is an abomination.
Now, obviously they're not speaking for every African American (particularly not ones with gay families!) but the two things go overwhelmingly together there too.
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Anyway, whichever way it goes, it's heartening to see that the vote was so close. It's only a matter of time before the supporters of gay marriage outnumber the opponent, both in California and elsewhere.
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As for those who say Californians vote for rights for animals and not for people, they are not the same thing! The comparison is driving me crazy.
Thank goodness parental notification for abortion is going down to defeat in California, for I believe the third time in a row. At least the right to make some important life choices is being supported by voters.
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But I was glad about the abortion law too--it does seem like they're just going to keep putting that on the ballot in different ways until they get what they want. (Hopefully never.)
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I live in Massachusetts and I notice that the sky is still firmly in place after several years of gay marriage. And gee, heterosexuals are still doing it. Surprise!
ETA: I love that Colbert line. I keep meaning to put it on my LJ profile page.
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I have totally noticed that about Massachusetts. It seems the same as always. Not only are straight people still marrying, but I have not yet heard about those dreaded man/cat marriages that were supposed to come with gay marriage.
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Are you kidding? Cats are WAY too smart for that.
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Now, obviously they're not speaking for every African American (particularly not ones with gay families!) but the two things go overwhelmingly together there too.
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