That's really interesting about Harry/Cedric--and it makes sense to me. There is some of that in Cedric, the way his father seems to be far more into his successes than he is, and tends to exaggerate them where Cedric doesn't.
I like that about the Weasleys too. I think we lose a lot when people want to basically take a certain idea *about* the Weasleys and make it the truth. It seems like Percy's unforgivable sin was stating the obvious about their financial situation--and in a lot of families that just wouldn't be an issue, but it seems like there's a lot of pressure there to buy into a single idea of how they've come to be the way they are, so it's taboo to suggest something else. I think it's almost that this same idea, that they're a big happy family, is what makes them put pressure on themselves. Like maybe they identify with their family so much the family just becomes really stressful.
Slightly belated reply--I think that's rather normal, actually. Parents are proud of their children, and make a big deal of their successes; children are embarassed when their parents make a big deal out of them. It doesn't mean they aren't interested in succeeding for themselves, and like onomatopoetry, I think that in the narrative, it makes more sense for Cedric to have had a vested interest in his own success.
What's most interesting to me about that pre-QWC scene is how Amos keeps pressing Harry about his loss. Which does indicate that Amos is more interested than is normal in Cedric's success, to the point where he's trodding over good sportsmanship. Just doesn't mean that Cedric doesn't want to succeed himself.
Wandered over here from hither and thither and this is a total non sequitur but you've just made me wonder about something:
Re-reading the scene where he's stumbling around in the woods, saying it's his fault and introducing his son who’s gotten "12 OWLS,"Another kid who probably used a Time Turner! Both Bill and Percy got 12 Owls and Hermione would have been on course to take 12 OWLs had she kept Divination and Muggle Studies, for which she would have needed the Time Turner. So we've got 3 kids who likely used Time Turners for 3 years, unless Hogwarts changed the structure of classes when Hermione started her third year. And if those 4 students did it, I'd have to think a few ambitious Ravenclaws did it too
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I thought of exactly that when I read that line again--wait, how do you get 12 OWLS again? It's kind of neat to think of other kids doing it and sticking with it.
Hmm, Sirius knew Regulus was a DE but did Regulus know Sirius worked for the Order?
I don't know...but then, even if he did there might have been a lot of reasons he wouldn't think he could go to him or maybe didn't want to go to him.
Thinking too much about time travel makes my head hurt but someone who's good at that sort of thing could have a lot of fun with a fic, I think.
even if he did there might have been a lot of reasons he wouldn't think he could go to him or maybe didn't want to go to him.
Very true. And that has the potential to make their story all more interesting to me. Sort of similar to how Snape (if one thinks he is not working for Voldemort) could not get over his hatred of Harry when trying to teach him occlumency. (Oculumency? I can never spell that word.)
I also wanted to agree with this: (Personally, I can't help but always picture Sirius as actually being the favorite despite being the black sheep, but that's a different essay.) for the simple reason of Sirius being the "lord" for want of a better term of Grimmauld Place. We know he was because Kreacher had to obey him. And we also know the Wizarding World has some sort of estate system because Sirius then leaves everything to Harry.
So if Sirius was truly the family outcast, why wasn't he disinherited?
I have a theory, by the way, that Percy is indirectly a Jane Austen allusion (Jane Austen, Rowling has said, is her favorite author, and we see she has worked other references in, e.g., Mrs. Norris). I believe she modeled him on Mr. Collins in Pride and Prejudice. Certainly Percy's pompousness is an object of ridicule to his family, just as Mr. Collins' is with the Bennett family. Compare Percy's letter in Order of the Phoenix, suggesting to Ron that he should cast Harry off as a friend to Mr. Collins' letter to Mr. Bennett when Lydia runs away with Wickham.
I really like that theory, and could fairly easily see Barty Snr as a Lady Catherine figure as well. I guess one of the main points of difference, which would take the characters in different developmental tangents is that Mr Collins seems quite oblivious to the Bennetts' ridicule whereas Percy is, if anything, hyper-aware of his 'outsider' status in his own family?
Hee--I'm re-reading P&P at the moment so that analogy is especially good for me right now. (Haven't gotten to the letter, but now I'll be thinking of it when I get to it.) Oh my, that really is Percy all over, isn't it! And yet I would say that Percy also has those hints underneath of something else. I can't imagine Mr. Collins ever dashing in to do something brave as Percy sometimes does, and he's telling Ron to throw off Harry, who in his eyes probably isn't on the same level as a brother at all.
Thanks for this. Enjoyed reading it. I was particularly interested in what you said about the Crouch family and how Percy was drawn to Barty Snr as a role-model. I always thought Percy felt his father's 'hypocrisy' of bending the rules and hoarding (enchanted) Muggle artifacts more than any of the others. It works well that Percy'd find Barty's black/white principles refreshing and even inspirational, especially when compared to the often chaotic nature of his own family. I've often wondered about the nature of Percy's ambition - what exactly was he hoping to achieve? A name for himself that countered what he perceived as Arthur's embarrassing legacy? Was he more interested in the power-plays or the attention? I like finding fic that sports Percy's POV because he seems a much more intriguing figure precisely because he rejected/was rejected from what's often designated as the 'good' family in HP.
I can't help but be sympathetic to Percy on that account. I don't have his need for everything to be black and white, but he seems to try so hard to be good and see the reason behind rules, and his father's casual breaking of them and writing them to suit his purposes really does put Percy in a bad position. I can't respect Arthur as a Ministry official, and I can see why Percy doesn't.
Yet you're right--what is it that Percy wants? We keep hearing about his ambition, but what drives him, exactly? Has he become important in the Ministry? Because he doesn't have the charisma to be a real leader, it doesn't seem to me. He seems to really like doing work, even grunt work nobody else wants to do, and he likes it so much it bores other people.
You know, that totally works for me. That sounds great! Also, even without Voldemort (who I agree probably would be a factor) Percy's living in a house that's very chaotic as well.
Oh yeah-I forgot to mention Bella and Cissy, but I loved that scene. Bella's as crazy as ever, but you can see she still has this relationship with her sister. It almost makes it all the more weird because it's kind of, err, normal. To a point--I mean, she's a little too willing to sacrifice her sister's kid to Voldemort, but then, that in itself could be a strange and wonderful story as well. If Bellatrix has been teaching Draco Occlumency and thinking that here she's got the son she never had. Weird.
Sirius and Regulus is always one of my favourite tragedy. I agree with you, I can't picture Sirius not being the favourite one, even while being the one everyone yelled at. I think it goes on par with Sirius' personnality. I can't imagine Regulus not thinking he's always second rate to Sirius.I can't help but see it that way, with a kind of East of Eden idea. Sometimes the one criticized all the time really is the one who's the favorite. Regulus isn't even mentioned until book 5, and then it's to be dismissed. Nobody seems to
( ... )
I wondered if he was an extension of herself already. I just go the feeling when she talked about how Draco was proud to take the job and all that she liked to think of Draco as being the family member who understood like she did. Just imagine how they might have seemed to fulfill each other's dreams--he's a young man all wanting to prove himself, and she's a real DE finally willing to take him seriously and offer him a chance. I can also imagine Narcissa getting more and more nervous about that, with Draco now having sort of two mothers to choose from.
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I like that about the Weasleys too. I think we lose a lot when people want to basically take a certain idea *about* the Weasleys and make it the truth. It seems like Percy's unforgivable sin was stating the obvious about their financial situation--and in a lot of families that just wouldn't be an issue, but it seems like there's a lot of pressure there to buy into a single idea of how they've come to be the way they are, so it's taboo to suggest something else. I think it's almost that this same idea, that they're a big happy family, is what makes them put pressure on themselves. Like maybe they identify with their family so much the family just becomes really stressful.
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What's most interesting to me about that pre-QWC scene is how Amos keeps pressing Harry about his loss. Which does indicate that Amos is more interested than is normal in Cedric's success, to the point where he's trodding over good sportsmanship. Just doesn't mean that Cedric doesn't want to succeed himself.
Reply
Re-reading the scene where he's stumbling around in the woods, saying it's his fault and introducing his son who’s gotten "12 OWLS,"Another kid who probably used a Time Turner! Both Bill and Percy got 12 Owls and Hermione would have been on course to take 12 OWLs had she kept Divination and Muggle Studies, for which she would have needed the Time Turner. So we've got 3 kids who likely used Time Turners for 3 years, unless Hogwarts changed the structure of classes when Hermione started her third year. And if those 4 students did it, I'd have to think a few ambitious Ravenclaws did it too ( ... )
Reply
Hmm, Sirius knew Regulus was a DE but did Regulus know Sirius worked for the Order?
I don't know...but then, even if he did there might have been a lot of reasons he wouldn't think he could go to him or maybe didn't want to go to him.
Reply
even if he did there might have been a lot of reasons he wouldn't think he could go to him or maybe didn't want to go to him.
Very true. And that has the potential to make their story all more interesting to me. Sort of similar to how Snape (if one thinks he is not working for Voldemort) could not get over his hatred of Harry when trying to teach him occlumency. (Oculumency? I can never spell that word.)
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So if Sirius was truly the family outcast, why wasn't he disinherited?
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Yet you're right--what is it that Percy wants? We keep hearing about his ambition, but what drives him, exactly? Has he become important in the Ministry? Because he doesn't have the charisma to be a real leader, it doesn't seem to me. He seems to really like doing work, even grunt work nobody else wants to do, and he likes it so much it bores other people.
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Sirius and Regulus is always one of my favourite tragedy. I agree with you, I can't picture Sirius not being the favourite one, even while being the one everyone yelled at. I think it goes on par with Sirius' personnality. I can't imagine Regulus not thinking he's always second rate to Sirius.I can't help but see it that way, with a kind of East of Eden idea. Sometimes the one criticized all the time really is the one who's the favorite. Regulus isn't even mentioned until book 5, and then it's to be dismissed. Nobody seems to ( ... )
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