Danger ranger likes your dress.

[sinsense]

Discussion of warnings on fic is going on again. I am leery of entering this debate -- last time I entered it, I was unclear, unintentionally hurtful, and misunderstood to the point of absurdity -- but I think I can get away with linking and a brief blither.

Link: untappedbeauty's post here, which in turn links to impertinence's very personal and illuminating post

Comments

[lovelypoet]

Fanfiction provides a community

Really, this is the biggest thing for me. That any piece of fan fic is one piece of one side of an ongoing dialog. At least for me. So... that probably colors everything I think about this particular topic.

And I'm so horribly sad that all of this has spiraled out of a case where the author DID respond so quickly and quietly.

[sinsense]

This is particularly true of livejournal fanfiction, I think. When I was on mailing lists, it was much more isolated; when I left feedback, it was often by directly emailing an author who seemed faceless, and I very rarely got a response. In LJ, my experience has been much more direct. One of the reasons why I like LJ fandom more than mailing list fandoms (and why I think fandom migrated) is because there is that kind of direct response, and the feeling that the readers and the authors know one another. Since I've been writing more, I've realized that authors in a community like this do hold some sort of obligation to their readers, as much as it pains me to phrase it like that

[lovelypoet]

But even on mailing lists, as isolated as they could feel, when you signed up, you got that wonderful automated email with the rules and FAQ. There was always that sense of "here is how we, as a group, have agreed to function." And there's definitely been an amplification of the community feel by the move into LJ, where there isn't the strong division between the people we tell about our squee and the people we tell about our day at work. I think that's done a lot to develop the idea of fandom as community, but it is also something that's very hard for the type of person who has the attitude of "it's just the internet/fandom." Because for so many people, there aren't the kind of strong line of division between real life and fandom

[sinsense]

I don't think LJ offers the kind of blanket community standards that mailing lists offered, I think because of the diversification that LJ offers (a community for every ship, and six or seven communities for the main show). It's what's causing a lot of the brouhaha, I think, because some people say "if there is no blanket statement, then I have no requirement to warn," and some people say that there is a group understanding. What it comes down to, for me, is a question of requirement versus responsibility. I'm rehashing things that impertinence said more concisely in zvi's post, but I think there is a certain responsibility toward fellow human beings, even if there's no letter of the law to enforce your adherence to a system.

I really like how you reframed the censorship issue, actually. That's really clear and clears up any of the sort of vague "it's about censorship!" associations I had with the debate. Thanks.

[impertinence]

It is really really unfair that what started all this is a perfectly nice person's willingness to warn. >:(

Thanks for the link to untappedbeauty's post. And uh, this may sound really self-centered and ridiculous, but if at any point you have an issue with my reasoning/argumentation, you're as welcome to tell me now as with any other opinion I've advanced.

[sinsense]

I know, right? Argh

[impertinence]

That person is just...oh man. They at least made me laugh!

Thank you for the commentary. The first draft of the post was pretty incoherent, but I tried to be as methodical as possible because I wanted to spell everything out too clearly to be misunderstood. I also wanted to put a face on all the vague hypotheticals that were being used as an argument, which goes along with what you've said.

[wearemany]

I only post here when I'm sure already, this space no longer having much room for being incorrect or in-progress

hmm. this made me so, so sad and sort of sick to my stomach. you need someplace where you do have that room. (maybe you have one already, and we/i don't need to get invited or see that, totally. in which case feel free to say so or not.) but i want you to have a place where you don't think twice before you say it. you're too smart to self-censor.

[buildyourwalls]

I was just going to comment with that but you beat me to it. I totally agree and I feel and understand what it is like to be able to feel confined in a place that you should not feel confined in already. It really sucks when teh people that are viewing what you write in a journal - a place that i suppose to be an area for your thoughts and feelings and additional discussion - must be censored in any way.

[sinsense]

I'm struggling with it, because while I have other spaces to do the thinking I want to do (tumblr, other journals that you know of), I want to post here. It feels as thought I ought to be able to figure out a way of dealing with this without getting rid of the journal. I'll get there, I imagine, it might just be rocky. (I figure you have some experience with this whole thing, given your own journal.)

Thanks, by the way -- you're good to me, and I appreciate that.

[wearemany]

how do you feel about filters? this is why i use them, and heavily. and though i feel an occasional twinge sometimes, some grade-school guilt, i just tell myself over and over again that it's better to get it out, on my terms, no matter what or who that means i'm limiting in some way. i label those filters for the readers sort of for my own record keeping (now LJ does that for you, but they didn't used to) but also so people who are on my most restrictive set have some sense of where i'm drawing the line too.

anyway: be good to yourself, too. you deserve it.

[secrethappiness]

It's certainly also that this journal has felt like a far cry from the space for thinking through things that it used to be

That's really unfortunate. I've always felt LJ is a person's space and they should be able to do what they want with it.

I just got caught up on the fannish issues tonight and I wish I hadn't because now I am frustrated. I prefer to be frustrated about work, not my diversion from work.

[sinsense]

I think having a readership -- which is not something I'm complaining about, at all -- that doesn't necessarily have a history with me or an understanding of my view on the world has made me cautious. It's frustrating because I do conceive of LJ as a space, and I think of that space as one where I can decorate as I will (so to speak). At the same time, I get even more frustrated by people misunderstanding me or responding to me in a way I don't like, so. Hey.

I'm really cranky at this point, so I think I'm going to eat some soup and go to bed. Very much agreed that I prefer to be appalled and irritated by my work and not fandom. I study monstrosity, it should not be hard to appall me less than my schoolwork.

[sinsense]

It's been frustrating me a whole lot, to be honest, because I have so many friends who have helped me think through things before. Iiiiii don't know, I'll figure it out.

Dude, I miss you too! You are the revolving faintly-smoking disco skull of my soul. ;______;