What I enjoy most about that Chris Brown song is the part where he says it's not his first time, but they can pretend if the girl wants that. Whaaaaaat, Chris Brown? You'd pretend to be awkward and virginal for me if I say that I only like to work with first-timers? Good to know, good to know.
Yes! Oh, Chris Brown. You just need to lay down the role he's supposed to play, and he'll be all over it like a method actor in the third week of filming.
Isn't it? I love the idea, too, that they have to negotiate that aspect of balance and have those sort of gymnastic elements in it.
I wasn't going to way in on these debates, however, something you said really tripped me up. You wrote: I understand that the ethical responsibility of ficsoreal and her refusal to own that responsibility is very much worth discussingIt honestly made me pause and I was a little surprised by the statement and my own sharp reaction to it
( ... )
I don't think it is ethical or unethical to violate community standards - they are, after all, just dependent on how members who believe they are part of a given set see it.
And if the community rejects it, and you, then so be it.
"honor among theives "dharma_slutApril 11 2008, 05:09:18 UTC
You have an interesting point of view and I hope you don't mind if I get all teacher-ish for a minute? Because I was struck by this sentence;
It seems somewhat dubious to debate the ethical obligations of an author who posts within a community which, by most public standards, could/would be considered, unethical. Many people within fandom completely shy away from RPS for the simple reason that writing fiction about real people is a gray area and when we debate the ethical responsibilities of our authors within these communities, are we not really arguing shades of gray?In effect, you are arguing that, because some people see us as "bad people," there's no reason why we should behave like "good people
( ... )
Re: "honor among theives "algernon_mouseApril 11 2008, 13:59:33 UTC
In effect, you are arguing that, because some people see us as "bad people," there's no reason why we should behave like "good people." I actually don’t believe that I’m arguing that at all. I believe I’m saying that we’re living in a gray area
( ... )
I don't have a ton of links off the top of my head. I know that Cathexys, Cesperanza and Rebecca Tushnet have all talked about this in presented papers. Tushnet has probably published about it to some extent, as her field of practice is copyright law, so it's related at least to a minor extent, if not a fairly major one
( ... )
I have myself on a "no! no responding to comments!" ban for the rest of the night, but I needed to respond and say DUDE, once again you are a rockstar. Thank you for that info - I'm going to poke around a little bit like a nerd, probably, but I doubt I'm going to make another post on the subject. :D
Now I will go drink a strawberry smoothie and read Milton. I think that is the best plan. [snugs]
Hey guys, just butting in here (I still have the last post open, sinsense, because I've been meaning to comment on the rape analogy and had planned to link you to some interesting things connected to that [ETA: did that below]).
Anyway, very quick and totally insufficient drive by, but probably the most often cited gift economy essay is rache sabotini's potlatch one HERE.
I also have a couple of older (yes, i'm metaed out and not updating anymore) links on metabib HERE.
I've actually not talked about it at length (though the community aspect as opposed to whatever constructed literary values we might perceive does structure much of my work), but a couple of my friends are working on it right now (if you're further interested, I'll gladly put you in touch).
I think that's actually a really crucial distinction, in those first two items, and something I think I ignored in my initial post - the refusal to alter the warning upon being asked to is what really threw people off, I think, and what inspired the dogpile. I don't disagree with the author's choice, actually, but it seems to be what people really get offended by.
Dogpiling in general... I meant what I said when I said that I saw that someone had commented and left it alone, no matter how annoyed I was. It's a good rule of thumb, honestly, to just let it go if someone has already dealt with it and you have nothing to add, y'know?
And you're pointing to something that is very ethically unsound about the response to "infractions" of a community's ethics. I'm actually rereading Judith Butler's book Giving an Account of Oneself, inspired by this discussion, and she cites Adorno on exactly this topic. He writes that mainstream or group ethical structures have a tendency towards violence; anything that offends them will be dealt with
( ... )
Comments 102
Also, wow, that tiny stage is so cool.
Reply
Isn't it? I love the idea, too, that they have to negotiate that aspect of balance and have those sort of gymnastic elements in it.
Reply
I wasn't going to way in on these debates, however, something you said really tripped me up. You wrote: I understand that the ethical responsibility of ficsoreal and her refusal to own that responsibility is very much worth discussingIt honestly made me pause and I was a little surprised by the statement and my own sharp reaction to it ( ... )
Reply
And if the community rejects it, and you, then so be it.
Reply
It seems somewhat dubious to debate the ethical obligations of an author who posts within a community which, by most public standards, could/would be considered, unethical.
Many people within fandom completely shy away from RPS for the simple reason that writing fiction about real people is a gray area and when we debate the ethical responsibilities of our authors within these communities, are we not really arguing shades of gray?In effect, you are arguing that, because some people see us as "bad people," there's no reason why we should behave like "good people ( ... )
Reply
Reply
Reply
Now I will go drink a strawberry smoothie and read Milton. I think that is the best plan. [snugs]
Reply
Reply
Anyway, very quick and totally insufficient drive by, but probably the most often cited gift economy essay is rache sabotini's potlatch one HERE.
I also have a couple of older (yes, i'm metaed out and not updating anymore) links on metabib HERE.
I've actually not talked about it at length (though the community aspect as opposed to whatever constructed literary values we might perceive does structure much of my work), but a couple of my friends are working on it right now (if you're further interested, I'll gladly put you in touch).
A couple of more not totally directed links: amazing post that reads headers as bdsm like consent; presentation about community and literary expectations and paper that reads headers as paratext.
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
Dogpiling in general... I meant what I said when I said that I saw that someone had commented and left it alone, no matter how annoyed I was. It's a good rule of thumb, honestly, to just let it go if someone has already dealt with it and you have nothing to add, y'know?
And you're pointing to something that is very ethically unsound about the response to "infractions" of a community's ethics. I'm actually rereading Judith Butler's book Giving an Account of Oneself, inspired by this discussion, and she cites Adorno on exactly this topic. He writes that mainstream or group ethical structures have a tendency towards violence; anything that offends them will be dealt with ( ... )
Reply
Reply
Chris Brown! He's very good at self-objectifying, too. And a wonderful singer. Huzzah!
Reply
Leave a comment