Just remember one little thing: Countries that default upon their loans often find it impossible to get another coin of any value from anyone. If America called in all of the loans we've been making to everyone since WW2, we'd own at least half the world. Mexico would become the 51st state outright. You have no idea how many loans to America have already been defaulted upon--I don't think anyone has any idea how many millions President Reagan gave away back in the 1980's as "loans". We sure made a lot of third world dictators quite rich while their people continued to starve. :(
Oh, I agree. China just about owns Texas outright. What gets my goat is how willing our politicians are to get us deeper in debt.
A lot of people here are getting tired of watching millions get wasted on stupid stuff overseas while we badly need money spent on stuff here. Stuff like education and roads. :(
As an individual, when you owe money, any amount of money you will be pursued relentlessly for that money. I owed Verizon $64 from a double-billing
( ... )
Re: Here's the problemsimonthecatMay 1 2010, 17:55:59 UTC
On the other hand, what if everyone said "screw this, I'm not paying it!"?
What if every country in the world agreed that the world's economy was so deep in the crapper that it was time to wipe the slate clean and start again?
Now, the other thing is, you're drawing a parallel between people and nations. Now, as an individual you can declare bankruptcy, either voluntary or involuntary. Can a nation do that?
In fact, now I think of it, yes they can. That is what Zimbabwe did.
Oh and the thing about refusing to do business with you will only work if you don't have something they want. But then, I suppose if you have something they want you wouldn't be in debt anyway!
Re: Here's the problemfluxiMay 2 2010, 03:26:00 UTC
LOL. I'm not adverse to wiping the slate clean. The world just may have an event that will do that for them.
Yep. At this rate, we're all in debt. The bulk of my debt is medical. I will pay it when I pay it. The irony is, the debt in question is the 20 of the 80% already paid. So, most of the debt was addressed by insurance; but, that doesn't mean they won't call me incessantly over $100.
You do what you can. The idea is to address it...even if you can't pay it, acknowledge it and deal with it in some form or fashion. Don't let it sit there and fester.
"First of all, let's bear in mind that no society is perfect."
Definitely agree with this.
"What prevents it from working is the greed and corruption to be found within Capitalism."
I would change the last word in that sentence to "humankind." It's not the systems that are corrupt it's the people running the systems, be it Capitalism or Socialism. Sorry, but the people at the top of the heap are always going to get better food, better housing and better health care.
As I understand Gene Roddenberry, he believed science would improve the world not government. Not sure I see writing morality plays as a "socialist" statement but I do agree that there are elements of the socialist Utopian society in ST. Also, it's important to note that the Star Trek universe lacks a fundamental reason for the existence of capitalism, namely scarcity. Capitalism, communism, socialism and other "isms" are about how to distribute resources. In ST, better living through chemistry has provided unlimited resources and eradicated disease.
It is interesting to note, though, that if all the food in the world was distributed evenly there would be enough for everyone to eat and some left over.
The problem is that, with the planet being the size it is, it is impossible to transport perishable food stuffs from where they are produced in vast quantities to where they are desperately needed without incurring enormous costs.
The problem is not, therefore, one of chemistry, but one of physics.
Roddenberry's solution, the matter transporter, isn't going to solve world poverty. The matter resequencing technology behind the replicator is based upon the transporter - beam in some waste material, reduce it to it's component sub-atomic particles, recombine it into a new form and beam it out. Simples!
But that takes energy, and it seems the one thing the replicator is incapable of replicating is a dilithium crystal - or any other source of power.
Until we discover a free source of energy that we can get at without incurring huge set-up costs, world poverty will remain!
Comments 12
Countries that default upon their loans often find it impossible to get another coin of any value from anyone.
If America called in all of the loans we've been making to everyone since WW2, we'd own at least half the world.
Mexico would become the 51st state outright.
You have no idea how many loans to America have already been defaulted upon--I don't think anyone has any idea how many millions President Reagan gave away back in the 1980's as "loans". We sure made a lot of third world dictators quite rich while their people continued to starve.
:(
Reply
Reply
A lot of people here are getting tired of watching millions get wasted on stupid stuff overseas while we badly need money spent on stuff here. Stuff like education and roads.
:(
Reply
Reply
What if every country in the world agreed that the world's economy was so deep in the crapper that it was time to wipe the slate clean and start again?
Now, the other thing is, you're drawing a parallel between people and nations. Now, as an individual you can declare bankruptcy, either voluntary or involuntary. Can a nation do that?
In fact, now I think of it, yes they can. That is what Zimbabwe did.
Oh and the thing about refusing to do business with you will only work if you don't have something they want. But then, I suppose if you have something they want you wouldn't be in debt anyway!
Reply
Yep. At this rate, we're all in debt. The bulk of my debt is medical. I will pay it when I pay it. The irony is, the debt in question is the 20 of the 80% already paid. So, most of the debt was addressed by insurance; but, that doesn't mean they won't call me incessantly over $100.
You do what you can. The idea is to address it...even if you can't pay it, acknowledge it and deal with it in some form or fashion. Don't let it sit there and fester.
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
Definitely agree with this.
"What prevents it from working is the greed and corruption to be found within Capitalism."
I would change the last word in that sentence to "humankind."
It's not the systems that are corrupt it's the people running the systems, be it Capitalism or Socialism.
Sorry, but the people at the top of the heap are always going to get better food, better housing and better health care.
As I understand Gene Roddenberry, he believed science would improve the world not government. Not sure I see writing morality plays as a "socialist" statement but I do agree that there are elements of the socialist Utopian society in ST.
Also, it's important to note that the Star Trek universe lacks a fundamental reason for the existence of capitalism, namely scarcity. Capitalism, communism, socialism and other "isms" are about how to distribute resources. In ST, better living through chemistry has provided unlimited resources and eradicated disease.
Reply
It is interesting to note, though, that if all the food in the world was distributed evenly there would be enough for everyone to eat and some left over.
The problem is that, with the planet being the size it is, it is impossible to transport perishable food stuffs from where they are produced in vast quantities to where they are desperately needed without incurring enormous costs.
The problem is not, therefore, one of chemistry, but one of physics.
Roddenberry's solution, the matter transporter, isn't going to solve world poverty. The matter resequencing technology behind the replicator is based upon the transporter - beam in some waste material, reduce it to it's component sub-atomic particles, recombine it into a new form and beam it out. Simples!
But that takes energy, and it seems the one thing the replicator is incapable of replicating is a dilithium crystal - or any other source of power.
Until we discover a free source of energy that we can get at without incurring huge set-up costs, world poverty will remain!
Reply
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