[soc/neuro; feminism] Eusociality

[siderea]

I.

They're right.Or at least, Group Selection is right. I've been reasonably certain Kin Selection was mathematically ludicrous since I learned about it at age 15, and it didn't add up then, but I figured actual scientists must have looked into it and I would hold my opinion until I had a chance to hear what they said. I got a little distracted

Comments

[livredor]

It's possible that Tarnita is being left out because she's a woman, but it is standard convention among bioscientists to refer to a paper by the names of the first author (who usually did the bulk of the work) and the last author (who is usually the professor who designed the experiments and made high level decisions about the research). Most people don't even pay attention to the first names of researchers, so I'd be surprised if the people omitting her were aware that Tarnita is a woman

[siderea]

HUH! Fascinating. I'd never heard of such a tradition -- in all the fields I'm familiar with names go strictly in order of precedence, so A and B are the most and next most prestigious positions respectively, and papers are most typically referred to as by, well, "A", but otherwise "A and B".

[en_ki]

My understanding was that it rather has been looked into, and folks are saying Wilson isn't saying "group selection is right", he's saying "kin selection needs improvement to fix [these problems]". Having not yet actually read the paper or completed advanced work in biology, am not qualified to comment further.

(Here's an example of group selection leading in the opposite direction from eusociality that I happen to have lying around.)

If you get into this and need papers, I still have PDF-smuggling powers via both the Institute and the Institute and am willing to offer three wishes.

[coraline]

yeah, i was about to offer my likewise institutional access to various PDFs and my amateur librarian-ing to dig them up, if you want. (i do this for my dad all the time.)

[siderea]

Ooh, thanks! I may take you up on that offer.

BTW, did you see livredor's comment about bioscience journal convention? Is that your experience, too?

[coraline]

it made sense to me because i'm certain i've seen it with more-than-three-author papers, but i haven't specifically paid attention to three-author papers. and yes, that is my understanding on the placement of authorship (usually -- there are political wranglings over authorship always) -- i.e. 1st author is the primary, last author is usually the PI, middle authors do a lot of the basic labwork :)

[sethg_prime]

Why are you sharing this fascinating paper with us? What’s in it for you (or your relatives)? :-)

[siderea]

Since I'm not having kids, clearly it must be because some part of me recognizes or anticipates whatever genetic material we have in common and induces me to provide for you so that your own kids, sharing half of the aforementioned common genetic heritage, will propagate those genes for me.

And, voila, argument #1 for why kin selection sounds really stupid.

[sethg_prime]

Landsman! Landsman!

(Landswoman?)