[pshrinkery, tech, school, atheism, feminism, me] Odds and ends (long)

[siderea]

1) I had my appointment with my pshrink last night. I had at the previous appointment printed out the How to Make Friends (for INTPs) and Friendly Christmas Advice posts for her to read. I'd included the full comments, too. Quite aside from what she and I talked about, wrt me, she was very fascinated and impressed by the discourse in the

Comments

[quantumkitty]

There's a reason they used the term "Patriarchy" instead of "Virarchy" or "Anthroarchy" (I mean, besides not mixing G and L)

You probably know this, but the second isn't mixing them. And I don't know if you know this, but there are actually two Greek words that are commonly translated "man": aner (stem andr-) and anthropos. The former means "man" in the sense of "male"; the latter means "human being." And so many people fail to get this, I don't understand it. Some factions of Christianity take issue with so-called "gender-neutral Bible translations" which do things like translate anthropos as "human being" or "person"; they don't understand that these translations are actually more precise. Sigh.

I find what you say about feminism to be quite interesting. I don't think I'm actually a feminist, but if I were I'd definitely be a radical feminist, and I do have radical feminist impulses... weird.

re: I don't think I'm actually a feminist

[etherial]

Do you support or oppose men and women being equal in the eyes of the law?

Re: I don't think I'm actually a feminist

[quantumkitty]

I generally do not allow myself to have political opinions.

re: I generally do not allow myself to have political opinions.

[etherial]

Wow. That must require a great deal of discipline.

Say, do you know any Waterburies?

[dpolicar]

Interesting... thanks for posting this.

The distinction between cultural and radical feminism, and the ways in which they seem almost entirely opposed to one another despite both being "feminism", and the analogy to early Reform Judaism and cultural Judaism, is all new to me, and makes a lot of sense.

Also...
My father, however, was only too happy to treat me entirely like a son to whatever extent I responded positively.

This sentence, in particular, caught my attention. I think that last clause is important and it seems like it's frequently elided. Without it, it's possible to hear the assertion that we ought to treat women like men, as opposed to hearing the assertion that we ought to treat people the way that they seem to respond best to without being constrained by gender roles.

[leora]

Hmmm, I guess that means I'm closer to radical feminism. But I don't think all our problems are because of patriarchy, even with your definition. I think many of the problems humans have come down to fundamental issues with human psychology. We have innate cognitive biases, innate desires, and innate ways of thinking that just are problematic. Most humans can be manipulated in scary ways and those who can't have tendencies toward being psychopaths or scary religious extremists. You have the too strong tendency toward pattern formation, where we see patterns even if they don't exist. We are flawed. But we can work to do the best we can with our flawed selves. And part of that is working toward societal equality, but that's not all of it.

[lady_guenievre]

My problem with radical feminists, on a lot of levels, is that while on an intellectual level, I see their point, on a deeper emotional level, I don't get them and they don't get me. Or at least that's been my experience - although all the free-to-be-you-and-me stuff is paid lip service to, the women on the furtherest end of the radical feminist spectrum I have known have considered many of my choices to be betrayals of everything it is to be feminist. (I (gasp!) married a man, took his name, and didn't pursue the career in the sciences I could have had. That apparently makes me a Slave To The Patriarchy.) Is it possible to reconcile the two?

That being said? The obligatory Snow Crash reference was a Nice Touch.

[leora]

Hmmm, yes. I like feminism when it's saying you should have choices and be what you want and that you shouldn't have your choices limited by your sex anymore than is done by nature itself (that is a man is not going to be able to carry and give birth to a baby, although that is true for some women too

[redaxe]

Here, here!

When I say the same things, though, as a male, I'm informed that of course I can say them, because, after all, I've never been on the oppressed end. Which makes me either an oppressor or delusional (in thinking I'm not) according to the very people with whom I share opinions.

Can't win for losing, sometimes.

re: the women on the furtherest end...

[etherial]

Don't forget, the people on the furtherest end of any spectrum are usually nuts. The radical feminists that annoy you have concluded that you haven't second-guessed yourself enough. They're frightened that you've been tricked, repressed, or otherwise coerced into behaving exactly as told.

A History of Feminism

[etherial]

You've inspired me to investigate just how I became a radical feminist. It may be impossible to figure out, to tell the truth. My parents have never really struck me as being feminists at all, and since I would say that I was a radical feminist by age 10, it may be impossible to figure out who or what could have influenced that line of thought.