I...don't know if my privilege is going to show, here, because I'm an educated white woman, but that feeling is one I have *all the time*. I was very badly socialized as a child. I didn't really start learning how people acted until I got to college, and I still have moments where I have to pass off the stupid thing I just said as a clever joke. And even so, I anger people by my very existence, and I have no idea why.
Perhaps it's because I was a geek girl when neither geeks nor girls were cool. I dunno. But I recognize myself in what you wrote here.
I think what you're talking about is related but not quite the same thing that I was thinking about, which means I've been too general.
I'm thinking about, specifically, the culture-mix kid's simultaneous hypersensitivity to how different groups of people communicate certain things, and inability to internalize said methods or own any of them.
I am fairly well socialized in multiple cultures, but not inherently a socially confident person -- so I end up seeming badly socialized in any given one some of the time because I pick the wrong culture's pratice, or else get stuck between them. Does that make sense?
If being alien means being the only [X] in the world, and being made to feel that one's existence is an insult to all right-thinking non-[X]...then probably? But there's a big difference between "choosing the wrong culture" and "not understanding how culture works in the first place." I think I may be having an epiphany here.
...I am always surprised that other people aren't always faking it.
Or don't know they're faking it? I dunno, culture is weird. It's all about the things we do together, but we pretend it's so much more...
I might have a secret decoder ring, but it's in another language and for another group and nobody told me which one and it's more fun to figure everyone out without it anyway :)
I rather suspect that most skiffy nerds have some aspect of this feeling, which is why the community is at least overtly accepting of differences; but at the same time I think the experience you and I have of being "from" another place (literal or metaphoric), is not quite the same as that of being "from" here but not fitting in. Not better or worse, not necessarily easier or harder, just... different.
Thank you for expressing it so well.
You know, this leads right back to things I'm bad at *grin* Thank you for reading (she says awkwardly)
I think they are analogous senses of alienation, maybe? Because as a girl growing up in the radical lesbian environment, I still went to a public school, and I never--I didn't look like the other girls so much, I guess, but I also had this weird thing in the separatist movement as a kid where I *liked* boys.
Which was not socially acceptable. At All. And you know, you're eight or ten--
I have a hard time even putting it into words. And as a well-spoken, educated (or self-educated) white woman, I get some of what txanne talks about above. People assume so much about me--that I'm heterosexual, that I'm middle class, that I have these aculturations and affiliations
( ... )
There's a certain point in a business environment where I can watch the social structure revoke certain aspects of my assumed privilege--when I become identified as an Other.
This is fascinating to me; I have it go the other way too, at least in social situations (not much business experience here). I sometimes start out visibly Other, and become invisibly Other as I express myself, because the ways I've learned to do so function as ... well, passphrases.
And then something I say or do makes me visibly Other again, of course. And sometimes I meant to do that, to resist pressures or challenge presuppositions that are making me uncomfortable (and sometimes those pressures just silence me, but I'm trying not to let that happen as much...).
But... I guess... it's always passing, isn't it? An awful lot of people are always passing.
The fact that I am able to put it into words probably means it's been lurking in my short fiction & poetry for at least a year and I haven't noticed *grins*
But yes, like you say, it means I can experiment! And poke at it and bring it more to the surface and notice if it's there.
once you're comfortable writing about it,
Er... here you lost me, though. While I'd find it fascinating to write things I was comfortable with, it hasn't happened yet. I only seem to have story energy for things I am confused, bothered, and/or terrified by.
But for the most part I don't assume that most of the people I know will have the shared cultural references to be able to do that sort of thing for me. The handful of friends I have who can are notable for it. One of my birthday parties when I was unsteady and exhausted, I nearly broke out crying because my friend V. knew exactly what to do to demonstrate that she was aware I wasn't feeling good and wished I felt better without assuming I was incapable of various things. And not only was it the right thing, it was a wholly unexpected right thing. So when someone makes an attempt to translate their idiom for that sort of thing into my idiom, I'm pleased even if they end up saying that something is for the horses instead of for the hair.
I'm aware that some of "my people" are more used to assuming shared cultural references, and others are more used to lacking them, and my trouble saying/doing some of these things, and finding an idiom that works, exists with both groups. Even when know my friends won't mind if I get it wrong.
Or even, even, when I know what's expected, and can get it right -- because it sounds wrong coming out of me. In my ears, anyway. I end up convinced I am faking being part of a culture by doing what's expected in that culture.
It's a silly and broken way to be, and stops me telling people I care about that I care about them, and it's high time I stopped letting it do that. But it's also rather interesting to me *wry smile*
The first time I was living in Japan, one of my friends was another international student. She described herself as French, from New Caledonia, and ethnically Chinese. She was born in Tahiti. And here we were, all hanging out in Japan. Although she didn't dress like a lot of the Japanese women her age, when she was standing on the bus or the train, the other passengers would assume she was Japanese. She said it was both a blessing on a curse. On the one hand, people would behave more naturally around her than they did when there was someone who was visually obviously foreign around. But on the other, they were nonplussed and uncomfortable when she spoke and revealed herself to be not-Japanese. One of the funniest moments, she said, was when her parents and little brother came to visit, and they were all riding the bus together, speaking French. The people all around them couldn't figure out what they were hearing. Not Japanese--but not a Chinese language either, and not Korean--the three languages Japanese people expect to hear
( ... )
Comments 48
Perhaps it's because I was a geek girl when neither geeks nor girls were cool. I dunno. But I recognize myself in what you wrote here.
Reply
I'm thinking about, specifically, the culture-mix kid's simultaneous hypersensitivity to how different groups of people communicate certain things, and inability to internalize said methods or own any of them.
I am fairly well socialized in multiple cultures, but not inherently a socially confident person -- so I end up seeming badly socialized in any given one some of the time because I pick the wrong culture's pratice, or else get stuck between them. Does that make sense?
Reply
Reply
Reply
...I am always surprised that other people aren't always faking it.
So--yeah. Yeah, what you said. That. Thank you for expressing it so well.
Reply
Or don't know they're faking it? I dunno, culture is weird. It's all about the things we do together, but we pretend it's so much more...
I might have a secret decoder ring, but it's in another language and for another group and nobody told me which one and it's more fun to figure everyone out without it anyway :)
I rather suspect that most skiffy nerds have some aspect of this feeling, which is why the community is at least overtly accepting of differences; but at the same time I think the experience you and I have of being "from" another place (literal or metaphoric), is not quite the same as that of being "from" here but not fitting in. Not better or worse, not necessarily easier or harder, just... different.
Thank you for expressing it so well.
You know, this leads right back to things I'm bad at *grin*
Thank you for reading (she says awkwardly)
Reply
I think they are analogous senses of alienation, maybe? Because as a girl growing up in the radical lesbian environment, I still went to a public school, and I never--I didn't look like the other girls so much, I guess, but I also had this weird thing in the separatist movement as a kid where I *liked* boys.
Which was not socially acceptable. At All. And you know, you're eight or ten--
I have a hard time even putting it into words. And as a well-spoken, educated (or self-educated) white woman, I get some of what txanne talks about above. People assume so much about me--that I'm heterosexual, that I'm middle class, that I have these aculturations and affiliations ( ... )
Reply
This is fascinating to me; I have it go the other way too, at least in social situations (not much business experience here). I sometimes start out visibly Other, and become invisibly Other as I express myself, because the ways I've learned to do so function as ... well, passphrases.
And then something I say or do makes me visibly Other again, of course. And sometimes I meant to do that, to resist pressures or challenge presuppositions that are making me uncomfortable (and sometimes those pressures just silence me, but I'm trying not to let that happen as much...).
But... I guess... it's always passing, isn't it? An awful lot of people are always passing.
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
But yes, like you say, it means I can experiment! And poke at it and bring it more to the surface and notice if it's there.
once you're comfortable writing about it,
Er... here you lost me, though. While I'd find it fascinating to write things I was comfortable with, it hasn't happened yet. I only seem to have story energy for things I am confused, bothered, and/or terrified by.
Reply
But for the most part I don't assume that most of the people I know will have the shared cultural references to be able to do that sort of thing for me. The handful of friends I have who can are notable for it. One of my birthday parties when I was unsteady and exhausted, I nearly broke out crying because my friend V. knew exactly what to do to demonstrate that she was aware I wasn't feeling good and wished I felt better without assuming I was incapable of various things. And not only was it the right thing, it was a wholly unexpected right thing. So when someone makes an attempt to translate their idiom for that sort of thing into my idiom, I'm pleased even if they end up saying that something is for the horses instead of for the hair.
Reply
I'm aware that some of "my people" are more used to assuming shared cultural references, and others are more used to lacking them, and my trouble saying/doing some of these things, and finding an idiom that works, exists with both groups. Even when know my friends won't mind if I get it wrong.
Or even, even, when I know what's expected, and can get it right -- because it sounds wrong coming out of me. In my ears, anyway. I end up convinced I am faking being part of a culture by doing what's expected in that culture.
It's a silly and broken way to be, and stops me telling people I care about that I care about them, and it's high time I stopped letting it do that. But it's also rather interesting to me *wry smile*
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