Aronia mitschurinii

[shkrobius]

I wrote this post a year ago, as a complement to the gooseberry story, but decided that one complaint at a time is quite enough. But it is another spring, and the old wound is bleeding again. So I repost it here.

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Мы не можем ждать милостей от природы. Взять их у нее - наша задача. (Michurin)

Николай Иваныч засмеялся и минуту глядел

Comments

[marvellous_lynx]

I am so soryy for it!
May I help you?

[shkrobius]

As a matter of fact, yes. Do you know a good recipe for this Aronia drink (my grandma called it "наливка")? All I remember was that sugar went into it and I am pretty sure that no yeast was used. It was very bubbly.

Some one told me that I missed a tree right before my very nose, in downtown Chicago. Maybe I am closer to my dream than I've realized...

[marvellous_lynx]

yes, try to find the place in Chicago, may be you are.

concerning the recipe, my mother makes "наливка", so I will ask her within closest days and if she answer, then, perhaps, you will get what you want. :-) As soon as possible I will tell you her answer.

[shkrobius]

Oh, thank you!

[terrink]

Очень правдоподобная черноплодка в Чикаго на улицах растет. Например, на углу Clark&Diversey. Я ее там объедаю по осени, презрев опасности городской ягоды, она крупная и сочная.
Если она размножается вегетативно, можно отчекрыжить прутик и высадить у себя. Или это как раз "неправильная"? Мне показалось, на вкус такая же, как у нас (в Подмосковье).

[shkrobius]

Hmmm. All I've seen around was A. melancarpa, the "wrong one." This shrub is all around Chicago, but even the birds ignore it. Maybe you've discovered something worthy; it has never occurred to me look for it downtown. Did it look like a tree? I've to go and take a look. They did not put this ban in place until the late 1930s, I believe. Which side of Clark and Diversey?

[terrink]

Нет, это не дерево, а совсем мелкие молодые кустики. Однако ягоды вкусные были. Меня тоже удивило, что их птицы не едят. Но они тут и иргу игнорируют, так что, может, просто непривычные.
Это вот тут на Кларк к югу от перекрестка, рядом с Golden Nugget:
http://maps.google.ru/maps?q=Clark%20diversey&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=ru&tab=wl

[shkrobius]

Thank you. If it's bushy then it is probably A. melanocarpa. Birds do eat them but only in winter, when the fruit dries up. It is the same thing as with the snowberry and cranberry bushes. As long as I remember, this is the deliberate tactics, as the berries have a particular germination time, and if these are consumed too early the seeds would not germinate. So the fruit contains a lot of tannins to upset avian stomach and it is the food of the last resort for birds. When the fruit dries, they begin eating these chokeberries. Maybe these ones are not as bad as the others, The ones I've tasted were hopeless.

[piterburg]

Who said currants and gooseberries are not legal? AFAIK, the federal ban was lifted back in 1960's, and many states (including MA, CT and NY) had lifted their bans as well. I have redcurrant bushes in my backyard - check whether IL still bans these...

[shkrobius]

I know, and we've discussed it in the old post. My state is IL. You have to prove a lot of things to get the permit. And my neighbors consider it as an act of deliberate sabotage.

[kaax]

Настоящая черноплодка добывается в том же месте где и крыжовник :-)

http://www.raintreenursery.com/catalog/producttype.cfm?producttype=ARON

Насколько я знаю, они готовы высылать ее (в отличие от крыжовника) во все штаты, так что проблем быть не должно.

Kaa

[shkrobius]

On this site, they claim that 'Nero' is Russian, but it is not Russian at all; both cultivars came from Sweden. There are also Canadian varieties (Nova and York) but these were developed independently in North America, and it is not clear to what end. I have not seen this 'Nero' variety, but I've seen the 'Viking' variety and it does not look like what I remeber it looked like in Russia. We have plenty of wild and decorative A. melanocarpa around to bother planting more of the same. I do not want to grow something and then discover several years later that it produces the same inedible fruit the local plants do. The USDA is dead set against importing it from Russia. The Swedes say that their varieties are for making jam or producing pectin. The Oregon company that imported these cultivars from Sweden sells their stuff as the commercial source of anthocyanin dyes - not exactly what I need. On the photos it looks shrubby, just like the wild chokeberry.

Is it the right stuff? Is it really like Russian "chernoplodka"?

[kaax]

Тут, как говорится в известном анекдоте, "есть нюансы".

Черноплодка *моего* детства была небольшим деревом и то (выписанное у Raintree, Viking кажется) что растет у меня во дворе на мой взгляд больно мелко, это действительно не очень высокий куст.

Черноплодка детства *моей жены* была как раз невысоким кустом и с ее точки зрения то что растет и есть то самое оно правильное.

В прошлом году был первый мелкий урожай -- пара кистей -- которые были съедены еще до полного дозревания и ее вполне удовлетворили. На мой взгляд ягоды были мелковаты и не такие уж сочные, хотя характерный вкус черноплодки (ну, таннины :-) ) у них был.

В этом году должно будет быть больше, посмотрим...

Каа

[shkrobius]

Here you go... That's my problem. It is an Aronia hybrid, but it is not the right one. Your wife was feeling happy to get anything at all, but I am picky, because wild and decorative chokeberry is all over Illinois, but the fruit while fleshy is too astingent. If you add tons of sugar, you can make a kind of jam from it, which still is not good. If you try to ferment it, the result is just awful, as fruit has all these tannins. I guess you did not progress to this stage; for now you are excited to get something called Aronia in your garden... Believe me, that's not quite the end of the story. Let's see what you get from it in a year or two