TSK discussion | Horizon, ch 12-end

[shimotsuki]

Here we are -- the last discussion post! Thanks to everybody who's been reading along and joining in the discussions. It's been fun to read this while having people to talk to. :)

Comments

[shimotsuki]

After I posted the chapter summaries, I was going to come back "soon" and post some comments, lol. Well, better late than never! And I guess I did have a few thoughts, heh. [In fact, it looks like I'm going to have to break this up into two comments!]

Comments about this part of Horizon:

• I'm a bit puzzled about why no more was ever said about Dag's having planted a persuasion on that poor town clerk, especially after Barr (quite justifiably!) confronted Dag so vehemently. I suppose it might be intended as part of the build-up to the walnut ground-shields; all the more reason for farmers to want (or need) such a thing.
  
  
• An example of world-building that I think is very cool is the nicknames. Along the Tripoint Trace, there's a throwaway line to the effect that Tril Bluefield was named for trillium. And there was a glass-wagon driver named Mape in Passage; that just has to be short for "Maple," even though the full name is never used. This kind of detail, non-essential, but there for readers to notice if they're interested,

[philomytha]

This is reminding me of all my half-written Sharing Knife fics! Because a lot of the same things struck me. The way the thread about Dag planting persuasions in farmers when convenient just gets left hanging bothered me - I kind of wanted to see him try it again sometime and get dragged back into line by Arkady or another Lakewalker, or see it come up in some other way in the plot. I suppose there is the bit at the end where he considers trying to persuade people to dig Fawn up and ends up just begging them instead, but it never really connected up, in my mind

[katyhasclogs]

The way the thread about Dag planting persuasions in farmers when convenient just gets left hanging bothered me

Yes, although I felt like it was sort of dealt with, just in a round about way. What I mean is, that for me that incident was tied up with the issue of Lakewalkers inevitably having a certain amount of power over Farmers because of the increased knowledge and control groundsense gives them. In that way I see it as linked to Dag's refusal to judge which bandits were beguiled, and Barr's misdemeanors, and even to an extent the way that Cumbia knows exactly how to push Fawn's buttons in their argument. And I think the shield-nuts go quite a long way to solving the problem of this power imbalance, because they shield Farmers from Lakewalkers as well as Malices, so there's something of a solution the the persuasion thing there.

But I agree that it's still rather unresolved in that they start having a conversation about it that just... never gets finished.

[katyhasclogs]

I can't help but picture Calla and Indigo as Goths. Especially with those names. ;)

I love that idea! :D

One way in which I liked Passage better than Horizon was that the number of fellow-travelers was smaller, so we had a chance to get to know most of them

I agree that this is a huge contrast between the two books and like you I prefer the way it works in passage. I'm not entirely sure, looking back, what work these characters were doing in terms of storytelling. Unless maybe to show that making links between Farmers and Lakewalkers is possible, and that Dag's getting better at it? I dunno.

But your comment about Owlet has reminded me that one of my favourite things in the book was that the main things he learned about from his time with Lakewalkers were plunkin and swearing!

all the instantaneous hookups in the seriesI kind of just accepted these when I was reading, and I guess I just read it as a trope like those in Shakespearean comedies when Everyone Gets Married At The End. But Arkady and Sumac were one couple I'd have

[shimotsuki]

Comments about the series as a whole:

• I agree with comments I've read to the effect that this series works best when viewed as one long story. I think the last two books are stronger than the first two as stories, but there's lots of buildup in the first two books that's important for what comes later.
  
  
• I also really like the sense that Fawn and Dag, plus assorted others like Whit and the Clearcreeks, Barr and Remo, and Arkady and Sumac, all understand the other side's culture and values more and more as the story goes on. There's definitely a sense toward the end that the two societies may begin find better ways to work together, even if it won't be perfect and it takes a long time.
  
  
• Why do we never find out about Dag's camp credit, or what's happened with Cumbia? Arrgh, frustrating. But, true to life, I suppose. And I'm still hoping for fanfic involving some of the folks from Hickory Lake post-series. ;)

[ETA: And I just realized that I haven't even said anything about Dag nearly losing Fawn, or Neeta's actions and the '

[gilpin25]

I agree with comments I've read to the effect that this series works best when viewed as one long story. I think the last two books are stronger than the first two as stories, but there's lots of buildup in the first two books that's important for what comes later.When I first read them, I was looking on the series as a slow burner, in that it wasn't until I got to the last two that I was reading them at ridiculous times o'clock and quite unwilling to put them down. The first two rather flowed over me - it was only on the reread that I realized how much I'd overlooked and thought of as descriptive filler

[gilpin25]

In some ways this was my favourite book, but I felt it suffered from everything getting wrapped up rather too quickly at the end, and the climax not quite matching up to the excellent, nerve-tingling build up beforehand. There were also those loose ends that you've both mentioned and a few too many characters floating around.

It probably didn't help that I'm claustrophobic, but Fawn's (and her baby's) near fate and Dag's thwarted attempts to save her were fairly agonising to read. I wasn't too fond of farmers myself at that point (but then how sad is it when they want Dag to raise their relatives from the dead?). Fawn's clearly made of sterner stuff than I am, but one night's reaction to it all seemed a bit brief. As for Neeta, her earlier skin-crawling seduction attempt with Dag made her actions even more horrific; on first read through, the trial and her subsequent 'banishment' seemed faintly unsatisfactory but I changed my mind later on. So many people know what she must have done.

I like Arkady/Sumac well enough, and the

[katyhasclogs]

Fawn's (and her baby's) near fate and Dag's thwarted attempts to save her were fairly agonising to read.

I agree - it was like one of those awful dreams where there's something really important you need to do and everyone is intent on stopping you. Except poor Dag couldn't just wake up and feel relieved it wasn't real. :(

Nattie-Mari is the most awful name; that child will wonder what on earth possessed them when she's older, lol.

You'd have thought someone named Fawn would know better!

[gilpin25]

Spooky moment: I'm looking at this post again and thinking I was supposed to be coming back here - and up you popped on my screen!

You'd have thought someone named Fawn would know better!

Quite! I've come to the conclusion that I'm not that good with epilogues: if it wasn't for Barr getting his time-to-accept-responsibility Serious Life Lesson, after reading about everyone being married off, being pregnant, and doing terribly well, I was getting close to shouting, "It's not all okay! What about Remus and Tonks Cumbia and Dar?" While I'm a sucker for happy endings, they never quite tell me what I want to know. ;)

[katyhasclogs]

Spooky indeed! Clearly this is the place to be on a Wednesday evening. ;)

"It's not all okay! What about Remus and Tonks Cumbia and Dar?"

I definitely wanted more Cumbia and Dar! I want to know what makes them such miserable gits tick, dammit.

Plus, I'm allergic to book/fic characters being named after other characters. Nothing makes my toes curl harder.

P.S. If you make it through my rambling and incoherent Marxist analysis down the page, you probably deserve a medal...

[katyhasclogs]

OMG the batmalice/mudbats are horrific. I wasn't scared of bats before I read this book, but I think I might be now!

I rather liked the comment, when Fawn was making the sharing crossbow bolt, that if it all went wrong then, well... it was only Crane. A nice bit of using earlier storylines there, to create a situation where experimenting seems a bit more accpetable. :D

[katyhasclogs]

I'm going to start this comment on the series as a whole with a (possibly) controversial statement

[katyhasclogs]

I'm replying to my own comment here, because while I was writing I thought of a totally different way of looking at the issue, and a bunch of counter-arguments. (Is it too weird and Gollum-like to disagree with yourself? It happens to me a lot