Dave Letterman and women writers

[elastic_spam]

So my nervousness about Letterman has kinda been realized: Apparently, there was sexism going on: http://www.popeater.com/2009/10/27/david-letterman-staffer-sexism?icid=main|aimzones|dl2|link4|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.popeater.com%2F2009%2F10%2F27%2Fdavid-letterman-staffer-sexism

Jesus fuck, Dave. Jesus.

Comments

[rocza]

Well, one person who worked there two decades ago asserts that there was. A lot of other people of both genders, working there through all the years, have said that there wasn't.

I don't find much terribly convincing about her claim, to be honest. She made an assertion that got her media attention, which is never a bad thing for a writer or producer - especially one who appears to be between jobs. And her claim is getting more attention because it's goes against what everyone else is saying.

As for the writer-hiring practice of late night television, that is a pretty separate issue from a sexist work environment.

[spoggly]

Gender is a huge factor in our society. It seems like you are having a hard time grasping the fact that, intersectionality aside, sexism is a shaping force of womens' lives regardless of what facet you're looking at. It also seems like you did not feel like typing "women television writers" into google, because the. first. page. of results gives you more sources from women who currently work in the field, and large amounts of statistics regarding things like wage disparity that would discourage women from entering the field.

You seriously ought to work on your critical thinking skills re: feminism.

[fornikate]

Gender has everything to do with it.

[rocza]

And I disagree. Yay, we're at an impasse. Next?

[fornikate]

You honestly think that the socialization of gender roles and the overall societal idea that comedy is a 'boy's club' has nothing to do with women not being as prevalent in the industry?

[rocza]

Kercher's Revel With a Cause talks a chunk about liberalism and satire in post-WWII America, and the changes that are seen in the entire genre of comedy, including the increasing role and acceptance of women. It's an interesting historical look, and worth a read, and is in part what informs my ideas.

As a whole, no, I don't think there's a continued "overall societal idea that comedy is a 'boys club.'" I think if that were the case, there wouldn't be a decent number of women on scripted comedy series - but there are.

Are female writers still a smaller number of writers proportional to male, across the entire industry? Yes, but the number is growing more balanced by the year. If it wasn't, then it seems like there would be a big issue.

What is afflicting the late night writing teams of three of the what, seven or eight weekly late night talk shows, appears to be a different issue. And also, noticeably, less of an issue the minute you start including all of the late night talk shows. Do you really think it's coincidence that she

[spoggly]

Add in the other shows, and suddenly there are a LOT more women, and the argument becomes a lot less strident, or relevant.

ooooo gurl you throw out that tone card!

[fornikate]

As a whole, no, I don't think there's a continued "overall societal idea that comedy is a 'boys club.'" I think if that were the case, there wouldn't be a decent number of women on scripted comedy series - but there are.

LOL. You can't be serious. That's such a non-issue that they have panels about it at Tribeca!

[decim]

so women are rare and not interested in comedy

you've danced around coming out and saying it, but it sounds like what you really want to say here is that women aren't funny like men are funny, and that's why they are specifically rare in comedy

[rocza]

Except I haven't said that at all. I've said that women writers are rare in comedy, and if you ask both male and female writers why, they will say they're not sure and note that they're much more common in dramas and science fiction shows

[decim]

I think that the issues behind female comedy writers is a lot deeper than gender, and I think people who opt to stop and focus there are doing a great disservice to the people working in the field.

who are, according to you, a whole lot of men and very few women.

how does gender "cheapen" the issue? it addresses the issue directly instead of dancing around it, as you keep doing, insisting that it "must be deeper" than gender alone.

[rocza]

Slowly, one more time:
Late night comedy writers.
Scripted comedy writers.
Drama writers.
Science fiction writers.

Lots of writing fields. One area has less women, when you narrow the field to look at three of many shows that are in that category.

There are less female late night writers. The question is why are they disproportionately represented, and why do they seem to continually move to other areas of writing? I don't think "sexism" is the easy answer, because I don't think it's sexist, automatically and inherently, that there are less people doing one thing than another.

I have a problem with the entire argument, because it relies on a limited data set to make its sexism point. When you open up the data set to include all late night television, the numbers become different. They're still less than other areas of television writing, but they're not this dire, oh god look how sexist the field is no one hires female writers, woe is us, awful

[spoggly]

It's a kneejerk response that very well could overlook any actual issue - work hours, job location, or other things that might be making it less likely for women to pursue that particular path of writing versus another.

Things like that are also hugely and disproportionately affected by sexism. How is this hard to understand for you? Work hours would affect women more because they usually need more standard daytime hours because they are expected to be the primary caregivers of children. Location would affect it because women make less money than men and might not be able to afford to live in large cities like NY. Or maybe living in the city makes them feel less safe due to disproportionate violence.

A large disparity between women and men in a field is evidence of institutionalized or societal sexism! There are more women than men in this world, so why are the majority of the writers of mass entertainment men?! Just because things are getting better doesn't mean they're equal.

[decim]

But automatically assuming that there is sexism when the only thing there is, is a disparity in numbers, makes it so that people won't actually take a step back and analyze what's going on in any kind of systemic or logical fashion.

what makes you think that by stepping back, sexism will disappear, and some greater, wider issue will suddenly become clear? by taking a step back, identifying what is happening and analyzing the reason it is happening, sexism is a clear answer. the answer? maybe not, but an extremely prominent one.

the fact that you can't or refuse to see this shows you are not looking at this from a truly analytical angle, and are making knee-jerk reactions that because it might make feminists look bad to say that sexism is causing something, it must not be the answer.

[rocza]

what makes you think that by stepping back, sexism will disappear, and some greater, wider issue will suddenly become clear?
I don't. But I at least have faith that if said step back is taken, then if ultimately sexism is the answer, then it's the actual answer, and not a kneejerk response. So far, the response to stepping back and looking at all possible causes for the disparity has been outright scorn, because of course it must be sexism. That does not leave one with much faith that any actual thought is taking place.

[decim]

when you see disparity between men and women in various situations, what is the comprehensive cause?

i have yet to see you offer an explanation for this disparity that makes sense on all counts besides ridiculous generalizations based on gender, i.e. "women prefer scifi/drama." perhaps you are not putting any actual thought into this.