Garber-ChaptershakespFebruary 27 2006, 23:12:32 UTC
My, My! I apologize about the format. Think I made a mistake by double spacing or perhaps this occured because I cut and pasted it out of Word. I will go back into Word right now to see if all of it is copied.
I had never heard of women joining men's monastaries before. Interesting. I don't know if I agree with the point made about Cabaret... I had always read the gorilla-Jew to be a comment not so much on the overt masculinity of Jewish women, but as a statement of the ridiculousness of the Nazi regime in their views of Jewish people. Furthermore, I think it has something to do with the context of the story that frames the song, although for the life of me I can't remember exactly what was going on at that point in the movie. Other Jewish women in that movie aren't portrayed as being overtly masculine, if I remember correctly, so I don't know if I agree with that interpretation.
Religious Habitsceara75433February 27 2006, 23:32:26 UTC
I read this last night and I was at a loss to link the Jewish man with feminism. Perhaps I am not as familiar with the Jewish culture as I need to be
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Re: Religious HabitsaquiellaFebruary 27 2006, 23:45:50 UTC
Good point! I mean jeesh who would want to be a women in the days of absolutely no rights (not that things are truly equal now) and for heaven's sake, who would want to wear the stuff women wore back in the day?
Re: Religious Habitsdr_robinrMarch 6 2006, 05:41:43 UTC
Hmmm, if dress if irrelevant, does that mean you'd wear jeans and a torn t-shirt to a professional conference?
Do you wear the same thing to church that you do to a casual night out with friends?
If not, then you are admitting the cultural fact that clothing is a symbolic system through which we signify gender, class, sexual identity, status, age, regional identity, and probably more aspects of identity.
Here's a specific related gender issue: I know because I've talked to female colleagues that it is not uncommon for students to comment on evaluations about what a female faculty member wears to teach in.
I've not found a single male colleague who has ever received a comment about his clothing on student evaluations.
So even if you truly find dress irrelevant, do you think you can afford to do so when you walk into the classroom as the "teacher"?
Re: Religious Habitsceara75433March 6 2006, 17:21:51 UTC
I believe that perhaps my view is a little narrow. I think that in certain instances, dress is very important. And, as you pointed out, the way a female professional dresses is usually commented on much more than a male. I think what I was trying to say was: as a defining characteristic of gender, I don't believe dress should be it. As a matter of fact, women often wear a similiar suit to a man's in the corporate office. I know some women who avoid wearing skirts and dresses to certain jobs so as to appear as asexual as possible. Do we still use the terms "dresses like a man" or "dresses like a woman," sure. But should we judge someone's worth, class, gender, sexual identity, etc, on what they wear? I don't think we should, especially when it comes to gender issues.
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Do you wear the same thing to church that you do to a casual night out with friends?
If not, then you are admitting the cultural fact that clothing is a symbolic system through which we signify gender, class, sexual identity, status, age, regional identity, and probably more aspects of identity.
Here's a specific related gender issue: I know because I've talked to female colleagues that it is not uncommon for students to comment on evaluations about what a female faculty member wears to teach in.
I've not found a single male colleague who has ever received a comment about his clothing on student evaluations.
So even if you truly find dress irrelevant, do you think you can afford to do so when you walk into the classroom as the "teacher"?
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I think what I was trying to say was: as a defining characteristic of gender, I don't believe dress should be it. As a matter of fact, women often wear a similiar suit to a man's in the corporate office. I know some women who avoid wearing skirts and dresses to certain jobs so as to appear as asexual as possible. Do we still use the terms "dresses like a man" or "dresses like a woman," sure. But should we judge someone's worth, class, gender, sexual identity, etc, on what they wear? I don't think we should, especially when it comes to gender issues.
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