That would be a wonderfully fascinating panel. I started out in fandom via anime. I'm not sure if the convention still holds, but both general sites, and specific fic almost always warned for slash (or Shounen ai/Yaoi/BL whatever the Japanese term in vogue was). Also interesting, I remember warning/rating systems as 'Citrus, Lemon, Lime'. People rarely used citrus but Lemon and Lime (Lime being pg-13/15-ish, and Lemon R/NC-17) were quite prevalent. Also, that was how I first learned the word non-con because it was in use in warnings, though perhaps only on specific archives. I know I went to look it up when I first came across it. And, of course most of the warnings that were in circulation were Japanese words, I had to look up shota at one point as well. So the warnings weren't as specific or perhaps as common, but they were still there.
As I am not a writer, I can only comment as a reader. I like to read slash, for my OTP's, and so for me slash isn't a warning, it's an invitation. I also have a like minded flist. That means that I forget that some people really do find slash offensive. One fic writer, who I enjoyed, did an epic flounce out of fandom for a while all over slash. She had been rec'd a gen story and was horrified that the author, who usually wrote slash, had a slash banner on her site. The flouncer went back to her journal, ranted about how her virgin eyes had been subjected to disgusting material without warning, then ranted about how her epic wonderful work wasn't getting as many comments as it deserved because she held to her moral beliefs and wrote only pure gen or het. She was admittedly complaining that the seventh chapter of her work had only received 42 comments and if she had debased herself by writing about "those kind of people and relationships" she would be getting more reviews. I quickly deleted her from my flist and refuse to read
( ... )
Warning for slash doesn't tend to protect you from the nutcases, in my experience. For example, I've gotten flames on a WiP that was thus far 100% gen with minor character het because I'd listed "eventual A/B slash," in the "pairing" section of my header. I've also gotten "ew, you made [male comics character] gay !!!11! Suddenly and without warning us, OMG, ew!!!11!" reviews on fics clearly labeled slash from fanboys who apparently didn't know what the word "slash" meant and thought the fic was gen right up until they got to the sex scene.
was admittedly complaining that the seventh chapter of her work had only received 42 commentsIn most of the fandoms I've been in, even the BNFs almost never got that many reviews on a single chapter (except maybe in HP fandom). But then, I've noticed that getting what most fans would consider to be a flood of reviews but thinking they're not enough seems to be a trend with people who flounce because they're oh-so-unappreciated (ex: "There are a hundred people on my flist and only thirty of you
( ... )
My introduction to slash was through SV as well and I distinctly remember that the slash warnings were about excluding people. Some were even explicitly exclusive. “Contains slash. Yes male on male romance/sex. Don’t like? Don’t read.”
But in some way, even though the current vvc warnings wank is about inclusion, it still feels exclusionary. Instead of the author/artist pushing people away, it’s the reader/viewer choosing to walk away. No, it’s them demanding to know if they should walk away. It still feels like fandom wanting to self-fragment and this is just another way to indulge that.
On a frivolous note, what’s up with the “warnings for ooc” that I’ve been seeing lately? Is that because it’s shorter to write than a paragraph-long disclaimer of, “I have no talent for writing original characters nor would I have any talent for being on a writing team. Please forgive me?” Personally, I don’t know anyone whose health was harmed by reading poorly thought out characters, but you know, can’t prove a negative.
I don't read that warning as exclusive at all; I read it as defensive.
But then, I was around back in the days when alt.startrek.creative.all-ages regularly exploded in a frenzy of homophobia whenever anyone tried to post a non-explicit slash story there -- usually a story with the same or an even smaller amount of romance as a het story posted immediately prior.
That was the mid- to late-80s and people were regularly castigated for posting slash fic without a warning. (And how delightful to have seen that worm finally turn.) I read that example as written by someone who's been yelled at, a lot, for writing something "sick and perverted", often by people who didn't stop reading when it became obvious that it was something they wouldn't enjoy.
I know there were several authors from that Trek era who wrote SV. I remember being bummed a few times that a favorite author had moved on to a fandom I was actively avoiding.
Thanks for that perspective; I have no clue for slash fandom pre-SV. By the time SV happened, the slash was so obvious that even on a gen board like kryptonsite.com, people talked openly about it even if slashfic wasn’t posted there.
Maybe it took a primetime show which typeset the subtext into 144 pt sparkling neon text to bring slash into the mainstream and I know I’m spoiled for it. But no matter how much people describe things before that, I can’t imagine how I’d think and operate under those pressures.
Most of the time I've seen ooc defined as "out of character" -- nothing to do with original characters. A note to let the reader know, do not expect the character you see in canon
Thinking back to the dinosaur days, when fic was only available through paper zines mimeographed off -- not even copy machines back then, kids -- there were very, very, *very* few venues for sharing your fic outside your closest friends who lived near you. If you were lucky (and 'rich), you could go to one of a handful of zine conventions or the mainstream literary cons (where you indeed needed to know the secret handshake, not only as a slasher, but just as someone interested in media zines at all -- zines were more common for "literary" work, with mainly reviews, commentaries and essays about particular authors or bodies of work and next to no fan fiction, although back in the day Katherine Kurtz, for instance, did allow fanfic of her world/characters, but she also vetted what got printed in her Deryni Chronicles -- I know, I know... who?); gaming wasn't big yet, nor was Anime. For most media fic fans, you got your fix through adzines: basically brief listings of all zines that were coming in print within the next couple of months,
( ... )
Here from Metafandom. When I first started reading broadly, I thought 'slash' meant 'really violent,' so I never clicked on it. Oh, the stories I missed out on!
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was admittedly complaining that the seventh chapter of her work had only received 42 commentsIn most of the fandoms I've been in, even the BNFs almost never got that many reviews on a single chapter (except maybe in HP fandom). But then, I've noticed that getting what most fans would consider to be a flood of reviews but thinking they're not enough seems to be a trend with people who flounce because they're oh-so-unappreciated (ex: "There are a hundred people on my flist and only thirty of you ( ... )
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But in some way, even though the current vvc warnings wank is about inclusion, it still feels exclusionary. Instead of the author/artist pushing people away, it’s the reader/viewer choosing to walk away. No, it’s them demanding to know if they should walk away. It still feels like fandom wanting to self-fragment and this is just another way to indulge that.
On a frivolous note, what’s up with the “warnings for ooc” that I’ve been seeing lately? Is that because it’s shorter to write than a paragraph-long disclaimer of, “I have no talent for writing original characters nor would I have any talent for being on a writing team. Please forgive me?” Personally, I don’t know anyone whose health was harmed by reading poorly thought out characters, but you know, can’t prove a negative.
Reply
But then, I was around back in the days when alt.startrek.creative.all-ages regularly exploded in a frenzy of homophobia whenever anyone tried to post a non-explicit slash story there -- usually a story with the same or an even smaller amount of romance as a het story posted immediately prior.
That was the mid- to late-80s and people were regularly castigated for posting slash fic without a warning. (And how delightful to have seen that worm finally turn.) I read that example as written by someone who's been yelled at, a lot, for writing something "sick and perverted", often by people who didn't stop reading when it became obvious that it was something they wouldn't enjoy.
I know there were several authors from that Trek era who wrote SV. I remember being bummed a few times that a favorite author had moved on to a fandom I was actively avoiding.
Reply
Thanks for that perspective; I have no clue for slash fandom pre-SV. By the time SV happened, the slash was so obvious that even on a gen board like kryptonsite.com, people talked openly about it even if slashfic wasn’t posted there.
Maybe it took a primetime show which typeset the subtext into 144 pt sparkling neon text to bring slash into the mainstream and I know I’m spoiled for it. But no matter how much people describe things before that, I can’t imagine how I’d think and operate under those pressures.
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