The real journey's end?

[sensiblecat]

There’s been a very DW-shaped hole in the British press over the last week or two, as new series of “Robin Hood” and “Primeval” kicked off to grace our early Saturday evenings, and several critics complained that they lacked the Doctor’s lightness of touch. That’s probably why there’s been so much good publicity for POTD - we make the most of what

Comments

[scarfman]

it simply wasn’t consistent characterisation for the man who ran joyfully to meet Rose at the end of TSE to decide he couldn’t handle loving a human woman at the end of the next episode
I think maybe some of the bloom came off of Rose when she thought he was going to regenerate and it mattered so much for her - that she wasn't ready to accept him for everything he is. It did for me anyway.

[acciochocolate]

Late reply, but better than never. We should be reminded of the fact that Rose was upset in The Christmas Invasion that Nine had changed into Ten, and even asked him if he could change back. So, yeah, there's an issue there.

[tazza_di_jo]

Amen.

[sensiblecat]

This particular post isn't really about Rose, but I do get the feeling that for many people she just couldn't win in JE. If people aren't bashing her for using the dimension cannon they're angry with her for feeling emotional about him regenerating. It all sounds a bit like finding reasons to dump her with the human Doctor to me. The fact is - and this is on your own LJ, Jo - RTD doesn't write perfect characters. He writes believable ones. I think the longing for Rose is nothing to do with whether she's a perfect person (though at times the Doctor does over-idealise her). It's about his own longing for that quality of relationship, a respite from the unnatural life he is living.

That icon is brilliant, by the way. I so wanted someone to icon that gorgeous pic!

[tazza_di_jo]

I know!! You just wrote it down a lot better than I ever could.

It is brilliant, isn't it? papilio_luna/the_tenzo has a bunch of them here.

[poshlil]

I do get the feeling that for many people she just couldn't win in JE

I think many people were annoyed by the fact that she'd been parallel-universed and managed to break that law to come back. Those same people are going to be LIVID if she's in the specials, because the Doctor explicitly says that her world is now sealing itself off and she can never see him again. Fair enough he did it for a kick arse finale, but if he recycles that plot line just to bring Billie back again, i'm seriously going to have respect issues for his writing.

[glory_jean]

Like all of your posts on DW matters, this is a well thought out and you do make a persuasive argument. I wish I could share your optimism in RTD's "grand plan." After the way he resorted one of the oldest and least effective sci-fi tropes - the double (hello Captain Kirk)- my faith in the almighty story arc is gone. I can't believe a person who was frantically rewriting (and came up with that) at the eleventh hour had a well thought out plan. He forgot, of course, that he had already written the perfect Deus ex machina created for the sole purpose of dealing with Daleks. The fact that he failed to utilize that easy out is curious to me

[sensiblecat]

You're obviously better up on comic book storytelling than I am and I can recognise where you're coming from. I'm assuming by the DexM for dealing with Daleks you mean Bad Wolf - and if so, I agree RTD has some explaining to do there and that JE was his lowest point. I think the way he messed that finale up showed that he needed to quit the show and that he tried to handle far too much alone.

He's been called a "first draft writer" and there's something in that - he needs an editor sometimes to make him kill his babies - all those good ideas that don't lead anywhere but sound great at the time. And maybe your pessimism is absolutely justified. But he's had time to regroup and think and, quite honestly, if he can't get things right this time around there's really no hope for him.

Re: Bad Wolf

[sensiblecat]

I only mentioned Bad Wolf as an example of a Good Idea that RTD appears to have dropped. But...I am intrigued by what David said in this week's "RT" - that in the next story the Doctor will find out something very important about who he is and where he is, and after that he's on borrowed time

[mefan]

Actually, IIRC, the Ood tell the Doctor that his song is going to end soon. I've always read that to imply the death of River

[sensiblecat]

I think what we have to see end with RTD's tenure is the Doctor's emotional vulnerability, and that's a direct result of the Time War. I've a hunch that for Rusty that involves resolving the Rose arc, simply because it's very much outstanding business - he had his opportunity to offer us a happy ending, but it was done very equivocally. He may have been testing the water, more likely he screwed up.

On reflection, I think the most likely scenario is that Donna decides to make some sacrifice for the greater good - not just for the Doctor but because the Master's back, or something equally terrible. I differ from you in one respect though - I see Donna as a massive shipper, and have done all along. But that's just how I read the character.

[catsfiction]

Does it count as everlasting death is Donna becomes a part of Ten 2?The way I see it, that's entirely up to interpretation because it would be outside human experience. I think all we can do is look at the text so far and see if it seems to be consistent with that view. I'd describe it as a shift to a new type of being, rather than a death as such but there's absolutely no doubt that the general public and the Press would see it as "Rusty kills Donna

[catsfiction]

Just to follow on from that, I think the reason this affects me so much is that Donna being kept in a state of ignorance for other people's reasons (even though the reasons themselves may be morally sound - for example, that if she knew the truth it would kill her) is taking us right back to the Garden of Eden and the argument that faith should take precedence over knowledge and reason.

Donna in her present state represents all that disturbed me about my years as an evangelical Christian. Being told I was wonderful (I was, constantly) yet not being trusted to know the truth about myself and running up against barriers if I tried to think too independently. It really is a living death and it would bother me enormously to see Donna condemned to that in perpetuity, particularly with her family co-opted as unwilling accessories to the Doctor because the alternative is their daughter's death. There are far too many parallels with toxic religion in that.

[scarfman]

But if you finish by affirming that people have a right to determine their destiny, even to the point of making the ultimate sacrifice, then that seems the right conclusion to me.
I'm with you there. I too disliked the Doctor hijacking Rose's and Donna's agency enough to have written "canon- compliant" fixit stories. I was on the verge of producing a noncompliant story to give Donna's memory back when the Christmas 2009 special set photo spoilers started circulating* and it started looking like she'll get a second chance in the screensource. I'd like to see those things rectified next December, though I haven't any suspicion or preference formed as to how it'd be done.
* Master of unintentional alliteration!