Nostalgia and the opposite of same

[selenak]

You know, sometimes I wonder whether the worst thing that can happen to a morally ambiguous character is to be adopted by much of fandom as a woobie. Sure, it means there's a lot of fanfic and meta out there, but the whitewashing out of everything that made the character ambiguos to begin with is beyond belief, not to mention that it more often

Comments

[harmonyangel]

You have reminded me why I avoid all Harry Potter fandom. O.o

Lily is AMAZING.

[selenak]

Oh, in all fairness, these kind of patterns are in all fandoms. My first online fandom was Highlander, and once you've made it through the rants (both meta and via fanfiction) on how resenting your rapist, torturer and killer of everyone you grew up with makes you an evil, crazy bitch, nothing on line of "blame the woman" will ever surprise you again. Well, in theory. In practice, my jaw still occasionally drops.

[selenak]

We're off a mind re: Methos. The first few stories I ever wrote in English (as opposed to my own language) were HL, and a lot of them have him in it. From Joe's, Alexa's and Cassandra's pov, all very different as you can imagine.

Cassandra was my first case of falling for a character precisely because fandom hated her so much for reasons which, the more I thought about them, disturbed me and made me angry more and more. I still think of my Cassandra stories as some kind of writerly breakthrough.

[big_n_happy]

Cheers for the vid rec, downloading now.

You a David Lynch movie fan? I have mixed feelings especially about his gender politics, but Wild at Heart is the only one I outright loathe. Was surprised to both understand and thoroughly enjoy Inland Empire.

[selenak]

David Lynch: it really depends on the film in question. I haven't seen all, and the emotional reaction ranges from "love it" (Elephant Man) to "flawed but interesting" (Dune) to "my darling which I will defend because so many hate it" (Fire Walk With Me) to "err, why is this a cult?" ("Blue Velvet"). (Also, I can see your point about Wild at Heart.)

[big_n_happy]

I recommend The Straight Story for something atypical and quite good in its own right. Blue Velvet... idk, can't really defend it, the score is fantastic?

Great vid! Makes me want to rewatch and inflict on someone new, haven't done a TP marathon in years...

[selenak]

The score is fantastic, and I'll try The Straight Story.

Hooking someone new on TP is fun. :)

[wee_warrior]

I'm cynical enough not to be surprised by Lily hate. After all, she is female. Remus on the other hand is surprising, but here, too, I would have been a lot more stunned if it had been Sirius.

Ever since I've noticed that fan adoration makes me hate the most beloved characters (usually bad boys) on principle, I tend to ignore it vigoriously. And I try to avoid feeling ashamed for liking popular characters, because that really smacks of "but I have better taste, I like indie music!" and those things should better be left to one's early twenties.:P

[selenak]

Verily. I myself have a weird kind of adolescent reflex I'm trying to get rid of which kicks in when a previously unpopular character I like suddenly becomes overwhelmingly popular, which automatically makes me go off him/her a bit. Happened to me with Wesley and Lilah both. (Lilah only became popular after the beloved Lindsey left, and you should have seen the Wesley hate back in s1 of AtS after he replaced the beloved Doyle. By the time s3/4 came along, they were both much beloved, and that was when I started to feel distance. There were other reasons for this as well, but I'm aware there is some innate snobbery I really must get rid off.)

[ravenstar84]

Hey! I found out that you link my essay. I just wanted to say thanks! :D

And you make a good point. I mean majority of the main character in HP are men, yet its the women that get slammed the most. I don't even think Voldy gets as much hate as Lily does. Or even Ginny. -_-

[selenak]

It is a truth universally acknowledged that the one surefire way to guarantee fannish hatred is to say no to the fannish woobie. And be female. Depressingly. Lily could have saved the world - which, come to think of it, she sort of did by saving her son - and it wouldn't matter, because she broke up with Snape. Head. Desk.

Also, thank YOU for writing the essay, both parts!

[local_max]

I had thought that Lily Evans Potter was basically presented as the most virtuous character in the books, full stop. Fandom never ceases to surprise!

[selenak]

She's a female character who broke up with the fandom woobie. It is a truth universally acknowledged that this is more likely to guarantee hate than if Lily had been described kicking puppies and eating babies in her spare time. Sadly.