A "spiritual" stance

[seaskysand]

While I am interested, I don’t relate to religion particularly well and I especially don’t relate to Christians (note, not Christianity per say but its followers). I have a growing frustration with the language, the perspective, and the judgment that’s im- but more often ex-plicit

Comments

[artkouros]

I love to read the Bible - the love affair between David and Jonathon, Jesus's boy friend - who lays on Jesus's breast at the last supper and runs away naked into the night in the garden of Gethsemane, then stands vigil in his tomb... the ancient OT god who walks as a man among his peeps.. the rabid socialism of the early christians....

If you read it with a mind free of dogma, it opens up nicely.

[seaskysand]

:) Is your next project the AKV Bible? Maybe it should be. The break it down - "Artkouros Version"? I bet you could get a book & movie deal in no time!

Oh to do *anything* with a mind free of dogma! How's that for Hallmark: "Now you can do *anything* with a mind free of dogma - Congratulations on your stroke!"

Sorry if this rambles - hope it manages to make some sense

[solar_diablo]

Some thoughts:

While I am interested, I don't relate to religion particularly well and I especially don't relate to Christians (note, not Christianity per se but its followers).

I think that's the experience of a lot of people, myself included. Christians have something of a PR problem in 21st century secular America, and despite what some Christians might believe about their faith being under attack, it's largely a problem of their own making.

I stopped believing in God when a young cousin was killed by a brain tumor and her entire family disintegrated in an ugly heap. At the time, a God who did that to a child, to a family, was not a God I could revere.

The image of God that's presented in mainstream Christianity has never stood up well to the problem of theodicy, that much is certain.

I still believe now as I did 15 years ago that religion & love are fabrications similarly constructed to serve humans strictly as sources of consolation.This is perhaps the most intriguing part of your post for me, because it speaks to an issue

Re: Sorry if this rambles - hope it manages to make some sense

[seaskysand]

You make sense though I did have to re-read your take on love a few times but I think I might get it...how or why did you arrive to the belief that love is divine (is that right?) Does that belief have anything to do with a belief in altruism at all? It's true that "God is Love" appears to be nothing more than cliche. Is it in the words? I really like the idea (for any devotee to something specific) that that something be regarded as too great for human language- as in Augustine's notion that the Divine is ineffable - human words are too insignificant; incomplete - for the magnificence that is supposed to be God. Maybe then, the emphasis would be on the idea & act rather than it's presentation.

We met with an older couple (one Lutheran, the other Catholic) who raised their kids without religion. Now as adults the "kids" say they feel a bit deprived of certain cultural references. As a scholar in the field, how are you (and S) approaching Ro's spiritual education?

p.s. I learned a new word: "theodicy" :)

Disclaimer - the following is an opinion, not something I'm saying is fact

[solar_diablo]

how or why did you arrive to the belief that love is divine (is that right?) Does that belief have anything to do with a belief in altruism at all?

Deity is panentheist in nature (both transcendent and immanent). One of the many ways the divine manifests in the immanent world is through the emotion of love (for the sake of simplicity I'll say that altruism is just a manifestation of love). Keep in mind the human being is an imperfect vehicle to transmit it, which is why love is often confused with something else, or diluted by other emotions. But I've seen glimpses, flashes of what I'll call genuine love that are similar to flashes of kensho. Ever had those? When it feels like you just got a glimpse of a deeper reality or your true self, but the second you tried to grasp it the door slammed shut? It's like that. It's the reason why I could never be a full-blown atheist.

It's a difficult thing to discuss, because I can't really articulate it, or even make an attempt to without sounding like a flake. It's much like Zen, or the

[razz]

I don't believe I'm here to fulfill any specific purpose. I just try to live my life to the best of my ability, and it's up to me to define what that means. I want to fulfill certain goals. As far as love goals, love itself isn't a goal--it's a way to compound my feelings about my goals. For instance, I love to cook, see art, visit new places, and write. I've fallen in love with someone who can celebrate those things with me and who I love sharing those things with--it makes those things better for me. I guess, in that way, love is a form of enlightment because sharing things in my life with this person helps me see these things in a new light

[seaskysand]

"A lot of those choices point to kindness and compassion for other people, even if I don't know them, and to grace and composure in handling myself, even in the worst of times."

That's pretty impressive. Of course I'd like to demonstrate kindness, compassion, grace and composure to all I encounter but it seems I'm lucky if just half of one of those prevails at a time. :)

[razz]

I definitely don't always hit it, but I try to keep those things in mind, and it's gotten a little easier the longer I've practiced. =)

Kim

[anonymous]

Wow- you posted this yesterday and already a big response! I don't have internet yet, am at my mom's house. We should have it by Tuesday

[anonymous]

Hey! I'm behind in my blog reading. Let's see if this comment ever makes it to live journal since I have this preminition that it doesn't like me since I always have problems publishing my comments