Paying to vote in the Hugos: why it has to happen, and why we should acknowledge that.

[seanan_mcguire]

All right: we're getting some semi-heated discussion about the idea of a "Voting Membership" for the Hugo Awards. This proposal assumes the following

Comments

[beccastareyes]

So the main difference between the Supporting and Voting Members would be all the programs and mailing stuff*? Mostly I'm wondering how much the price point of a Supporting Membership could be lowered by making print materials opt-in (or available for a separate fee) for non-Congoers. Presumably WorldCon then doesn't lose as much money if they are also reducing expenses -- the money as 'seed' money would still be a concern, though, since as you point out, scale means that printing Programs 2001 to 2100 is less expensive than printing Programs 1-100. But I imagine someone could work up budgets.

* I gather there is also WorldCon site selection. But what else am I missing?

[seanan_mcguire]

Physical material and site selection is about it, as far as I know. The publishers are going to be a bigger concern: we can't really make a budget for that.

[beccastareyes]

That's true. And I don't know if you can pin anyone down on what numbers of cost and number of voters will be a turn-off for publishers.

[jorhett]

Most worldcon committees have been offering electronic delivery for all publications for several years now. Print costs are frankly falling low enough to start dropping beneath cost efficiency lines. No savings there.

Don't forget you get to nominate for TWO years.

[jslinder]

Having been involved in Worldconning, I'm not sure there is a 'good' solution. Ideas have been tossed around for quite a while and its one of those scenarios where there IS no one proposal that works for all parties. As you noted, drop the price and you risk annoying the publishers (side note, I have thought and continue to think there should be ONE designated format or two max for the e-packet so as to avoid the issues above.)

The only one I came up with, and I don't see it happening because of logistics, was a reduced price supporting membership that didn't include the e-packet as such but did include the ability to read it online. But then you need to maintain a secured web host, etc...

[seanan_mcguire]

I've been involved too, although admittedly not since the inception of the packet. I like that ideas are getting tossed around. That's a big thing for me: to know that we've examined all the angles. That's why I dislike this amendment. It's not that I think we'll snap our fingers and have an answer by Monday when the con ends, it's that changing the constitution kills the conversation before we've eliminated all the options.

[jslinder]

I just back read the other thread, and that gave me an idea (I am not actively involved anymore someone feel free to steal).

Scholarships.

If finances are that tight for some people (and they are), and if any funds remaining from a prior worldcon are paid forward to the next, those funds could be used to provide a Supplemental membership based on some guidelines to be adopted.

No revenue loss or minimal, and more people get included!

[geekhyena]

I do like the idea of a "school age" membership, but maybe make it available to anyone with a valid student ID? Even for me as a college student, and now as a grad student, a supporting membership is a lot of money, though I do think it's worth it, it just takes some saving up for. A lot of my fellow students feel the same way. But I do agree that we need to make sure that everyone is getting a fair deal. Thanks for posting this!

[seanan_mcguire]

I think if we started extending it to grad students and mature students and the denizens of Greendale, we'd get pushback, unfortunately, because that is such a potentially huge group of people. It's harder to spin that as the "low income" tier when talking to people who could pull their works from the packet, you know?

[geekhyena]

True, which is a shame - if it weren't for the Hugo packet, I wouldn't've found Mira Grant's work (I didn't know it was you at the time), and I still remember how I couldn't put it down. I remember how I was so surprised to find zombie fiction that I actually liked, I couldn't shut up about it to my friends and my coworkers. But yeah, given how many college students there are, it would be a bit harder to spin than if you did it strictly by age.

[ebeneezerdark]

"...surprised to find zombie fiction that I actually liked..."

Oh, me too... :-)

[jorhett]

Students and income-limited seniors (and perhaps a few other small cases) I have to say that the basis of the question is bogus.

For $60, you get over $200 worth of what your peers think are the best books of the previous year, plus other materials that sometimes a person can't even purchase in their region. And you get to vote on Hugos, Campbell, and Worldcon Site Selection. There is simply no valid argument for "this should be cheaper". This is better than any deal you can get on Woot!

[seanan_mcguire]

Dude, I can pay the current cost. But if the current cost includes $10 for physical paper you don't want, why shouldn't we get rid of that, either by changing the way Supporting Memberships work (no auto paper) or creating a third tier? Even ten dollars can be a huge difference for some people.

I mean, honestly, I lose money if you read all my shit in the Voter's Packet instead of buying it. Normally I hate losing money, 'cause my cats gotta eat. But I do think this is a discussion worth having.

[jorhett]

I've been told the print costs number is less than $5. That said I have been asking conventions to switch to an extra charge for print versions. Old time fans throw fits. But it's probably irrelevant to the costs at this point.

[jorhett]

I also want to say that if more of us show up at the Fannish Inquisition and badger future Worldcons about not making us pay paper costs, it would help to change the trend.

[ext_1402622]

I think it's important to have this conversation too, and you've summed up a lot of issues.

One issue I think needs to be added: if there was better publicity around the Voting Packet and what you get for Supporting Memberships, publicity for people who are into the genre but won't attend WorldCon for a myriad of reasons, I think they'd sell more supporting memberships. It's AWESOME value for money, especially here in Australia where a paperbacks tend to cost $20 or more each; if ONE paperback is only $15.99 it's CHEAP. Don't get me started on how expensive eBooks are and how Australian eBooks from Amazon cost more than USA hardcovers...

The supporting membership is AWESOME value for money. While some people may be interested in a voting membership, I suspect more would be interested in the supporting membership if they knew what they were getting.

[dragonsally]

Hell yeah Nalini, I totally agree with you (its the Melbourne air)
Even though I try to exist on a pension, and already own quite a few of the books in the package it is still brilliant value for me because I get introduced to other writers and their work.

And apart from that value to me, I'm supporting the con, even though I can't be there.
FTW.

[17catherines]

I reckon! I'd never heard of Supporting Memberships before reading this post, but I'll be keeping an eye out in future!

[wolf_shadow]

I have to agree with this point. This year was the first year I had heard of them too, unfortunately just as the payments were due for my Big Expense of the year (IMC Leeds for me). If I had been aware previously / earlier, it's certainly something that I would consider as a birthday present for the husband. $60 into £ = good value birthday present fodder :D