Women in the the genealogy of Jesus // O Holy Night!

[scrollgirl]

My family and I (except my sister) had dinner last night with my dad's side, and today we're all going over to my cousin's house on my mom's side. We didn't put up a tree this year, or get one another gifts, though we'll be having a gift exchange with my cousins tonight. (The kind of exchange where you grab a gift from the pile, open it, then you

Comments

[kita0610]

Jewish geneaology is purely matriarchal. According to Jewish law, you are the religion of your mother, you belong to the tribe of your mother, and all bloodlines are traced through the mother. Reason being, you can never be 100% sure who your father is. Which is kind of interesting when it comes to Jesus, hunh? *G*

[scrollgirl]

Yeah, see, I thought that was odd because I knew that you're Jewish depending on your mother, not your father. So I'm not sure why the genealogies we see in the Bible (and in the Pentateuch?) are male-based. We've got family trees for Adam to Noah to Abraham.

[kita0610]

Well, I can't say I'm familiar with the NT OR the King James (or other English-based) translations of the Torah. But I always did think it was weird that Jesus claimed the House of David through his father (correct me if I'm wrong, please) because that isn't how it works. No doubt there's sexism in any version of the Bible, and lots of son of son of, but the tribal affiliations, priestly affiliations, etc., are all matrilineal.

[scrollgirl]

Yeah, I have to assume there's a lot of patriarchy going on there. But maybe you can clear something up for me re the Torah? Does it give a family tree from Abraham to the kings of Israel? And if so, is it matrilineal? Because the version we have in our "Old" Testament seems to be patrilinial.

[kita0610]

If you give me a general idea of where to look it up, I'll be happy to. It's been a LONG time since I've been able to quote where things come from in the Torah. Bad Jew is Bad. ;)

**Ok, after looking more up, I stand corrected- tribal is father. Religion/house is mother. Also, tribal has to be by blood, you can't be adopted into being a Cohen (priest). Check it out I am re-learning stuff. My poor Poppy is rolling in his grave.

[scrollgirl]

Hmm, I think the story of Ruth gives a genealogy from Perez (whose mother was Tamar, I assume) to King David. And 1 Chronicles chapters 5-8 lists the genealogies of the twelve tribes, and it appears patriarchal: Benjamin was the father of Bela his firstborn, Ashbel the second son, Aharah the third, Nohah the fourth and Rapha the fifth. The sons of Bela were: Addar, Gera, Abihud, Abishua, Naaman, Ahoah, Gera, Shephuphan and Huram.

So Ruth and Chronicles are both part of the Ketuvim, I think?

[kita0610]

I'm going to do some more research and check into it in the Hebrew before I just start making shit up. Gimme a day or two and I'll be back. Awesome conversation, thank you for hosting it. <3

[scrollgirl]

Whenever you have time! I'm pretty much just googling and using Wikipedia, so anything you can tell me would be great :)

[scrollgirl]

I just saw your edit! Cool, I'm learning stuff as you're re-learning. It's all good :)

Heck, I'm sure my old Sunday school teacher wrings his hands in despair that I still haven't got the twelve tribes memorized.

Also, tribal has to be by blood, you can't be adopted into being a Cohen (priest).

Very interesting. I wonder what that says about Ruth, that she would take her mother-in-laws religion instead of her Moabite religion.

[kita0610]

Well we accept converts, but the Cohanim are bloodline only. Ruth was a Jew, her children were Jews. But you can't convert and claim Cohen status. Which goes by father's bloodline in any case.

And another PS. Have you seen this story? It gives me chills.

[jrosemary]

Well, I can't say I'm familiar with the NT OR the King James (or other English-based) translations of the Torah. But I always did think it was weird that Jesus claimed the House of David through his father (correct me if I'm wrong, please) because that isn't how it works. No doubt there's sexism in any version of the Bible, and lots of son of son of, but the tribal affiliations, priestly affiliations, etc., are all matrilineal. No. I'm sorry, but this is absolutely incorrect

[kita0610]

Edit: Ok, I see the original poster corrected the statement I quoted above. Just take this for added info, then!

Yeah, like I said. My grandfather is spinning in his grave about all the things I have forgotten since my Elementary Yeshiva days. Oy-vey!

Conclusion: Jesus was Jewish if Mary was Jewish, but his tribe/house can't be established. Although one supposes if it's your belief he is the Messiah, he can claim any house he wants. ;)

[jrosemary]

As a Jew, I'm not going to comment on Jesus's lineage one way or another. I accept that he was a nice Jewish boy; the rest doesn't matter to me, lol.

[kita0610]

Pretty much, yes.

[anomster]

Yes, & if Jesus was a Jew...that means Mary was a Jewish mother! @>) What the further implications of that might be, I'm not sure.

[jrosemary]

Well, personally, I think it's obvious that she was a Jewish mother. She thought her son was G-d!

(Ok, that's an old joke--but it's a good one.)