My weekly homage to Governor Christie

[schmengie]

This article from George Will captures my view clearly. Especially this closing:
Christies predecessor addressed a huge unionized rally of public employees, vowing to "fight for a fair contract." Who was he going to fight? The negotiator across the table would be ... himself

Comments

65 at 25

[freelikebeer]

I'm going to barf.

[chrisls]

Philosophically, I don't have anything against unions, but man the practice of them in this country is just terrible. There are so many laws that protect them that it creates an unbalanced playing field - after all, most employers would just say "if you don't like what I'm offering you, I'll just hire someone else." If the employer can't find someone effective at what they are offering, there is clearly a problem.

But you're exactly right - the key is that government is inherently non-productive. Unions have put businesses out of business, but the solution to government running out of money is to take more from the taxpayers.

[schmengie]

Philosophically, I don't have anything against unions, but man the practice of them in this country is just terrible.

+1

Public Unions are different and need to be abolished. Or if they exist it should be for grievances only, not anything related to benefits and pay scales

[jpmassar]

They generate no revenue and create no product.

That's absurd. Just because you can't hold it in your hands or drive it doesn't mean it isn't 'product'. Teachers, fireman, policeman, road-builders all create 'product' that even you are quite willing to pay something for.

That said, there is a huge problem, basically having to do with those in charge being able to promise future benefits (as opposed to immediate pay increases) at no political or other cost to themselves. But it's not just a public employee problem. The same incentives bedevil, say, GM, where executives were able to promise large down-the-road retiree and health benefits without incurring any 'penalty'. Then they retire and 10+ years later the shit hits the fan.

[schmengie]

I would disagree that what you are describing is a product.I would say its a value. But I think either way your second point is spot on regarding promises being made for the future.

The only difference with GM (until we bought them) is if these failures caused a financial loss, it was the shareholders (and employees who dont get the promised bennies) who paid the price. In the Public Sector its us.

[jpmassar]

Not completely. There are many indirect costs for these private failures that redirect the burden on the taxpayer.

People who should have had health benefits now have to rely on Medicare. Pension funds get bailed out by the government. Pension money which is not being paid is not being taxed. Retired people spend less, less sales tax. And, as you mention, too-big-to-fail corporations get bailed out by the government.

[schmengie]

"People who should have had health benefits now have to rely on Medicare"

I think most employees have to pay Medicare Taxes, why is this a burden?

"Pension funds get bailed out by the government"

That is another decision made by politicians. Its not required.

"Pension money which is not being paid is not being taxed."

Thats probably offset by people having to work and pay taxes on income

[gunga_galunga]

I have written before that I believe Public Employee Unions should be illegal.

Regulating workers=good
Regulating employers=bad

Got it.

[schmengie]

Employers are Private. I am as against regulating private workers as I am private employers. (thats just a general statement, I am for some degree of constitutional regulation). I have no problem with workers organizing into unions in the private sector.

Public Sector is just different. Public Sector Union negotiates with government (us) and in my opinion (and even Clutch agreed) it is too big a conflict of interest to work.

[deadmonywalking]

You do need a public sector union of some type because they are not allowed to go on strike. It sounds like we need better oversight of the contracts that they agree to.

[schmengie]

bullshit. We have 10% unemployment and 17% real unemployment. Take the job as offered or let someone else take it.

[loser_variable]

65%? What a bunch of chumps. In our democratic stronghold pensions are calculated by officers' earnings during their last 30 days of work, including overtime, shift differential and holidays.

You wait for a hot summer month with a couple gang homicides, and put in some 60 to 80 hour weeks failing to solve them, then cash out. Here's a few numbers from a particularly good batch (they tend to leave in large bunches, leaving the city screaming for more cops, which is why we have to pay them so much because it's so hard to get cops you see). The percentage is their pension in terms of their full time salary. Healthcare benefits too, of course.

154% retired age 42 [Actual amount was about 85K/yr]
148% retired age 43
140% retired age 38

I know a couple cops from the gym. Many don't actually retire, they just take another cop job somewhere else and start compiling another pension. For some it's enough and they go fishing or to the cardroom or whatever.