I have been reading the StoryBundle I have a story in, and finding a wide variety of works listed under the "epic fantasy" umbrella, prompting a look at the works, and definitions. I would love to talk about both.
You know, I don't think I find it plausible to call The Lord of the Rings an epic fantasy. It's almost an anti-epic: Its hero is not a mighty-thewed warrior like Achilles or Odysseus or Aeneas or Arjuna or Rama, but the modest, clever, physically weak Frodo Baggins. There is actually a scene where the co-hero, Sam Gamgee, envisions himself as Samwise the Strong, a small but Conanesque figure-and then his common sense comes back and he shrugs it off, without regret, as a delusion inflicted on him by the Ring.
If Tolkien had been writing an epic, he might have made Aragorn the primary character. Or even Boromir, who has much more the epic outlook on things.
I think you can see from this that my reference point for "epic fantasy" is, well, epics-especially the classic Greek and Indian epics. If I were looking for something comparable in fantasy, my first choice would probably be Eddison, especially Mistress of Mistresses. Zelazny's Lord of Light has something of the quality, though strictly speaking it would be epic science fiction
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Maybe not informed on current books, but a good comment just the same. Tolkien's book has undergone a lot of redefining over my lifetime, certainly. As has epic fantasy/high fantasy/ and other qualifiers.
Well, if you go by Tolkien's "mythology for England" idea, LotR could fit that.
But that doesn't seem like a sound definition of "epic," in that it does not seem to apply to most of the major epics. The Iliad is a war story; the Odyssey is the story of a man's coming home from a war, and sort of turns into science fiction along the way (or perhaps into seafarers' tall tales); the Mahabharata is a war story; the Ramayana is about the rescue of a kidnapped woman (come to think of it, sartorias, it's almost a closer fit than the Iliad to Streets of Fire); the Commedia is a sort of vision quest; Paradise Lost is fanfic about Genesis; I haven't looked at the Lusiads, but I have the impression they're about the voyages of Portuguese navigators. The only epic I know anything about that tells of a founding is the Aeneid
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My personal definition of 'epic fantasy' would be where either:
(a) the stakes are global ie not just a kingdom or even continental-level field of action but one where the outcome of the action will affect the whole world. So LOTR fits, because if Sauron wins, the whole of Middle-earth will be very sorry, and so does Aliette de Bodard's "Obsidian and Blood" trilogy, even though the action takes place in a very small geographical space, because the outcome will decide whether the current world ends or not. E E Smith's "Lensman" space opera books would probably qualify too.
(b) where the characters are not only humans but bigger things, gods and monsters, conducting themselves in appropriately non-human ways.
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If Tolkien had been writing an epic, he might have made Aragorn the primary character. Or even Boromir, who has much more the epic outlook on things.
I think you can see from this that my reference point for "epic fantasy" is, well, epics-especially the classic Greek and Indian epics. If I were looking for something comparable in fantasy, my first choice would probably be Eddison, especially Mistress of Mistresses. Zelazny's Lord of Light has something of the quality, though strictly speaking it would be epic science fiction ( ... )
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But that doesn't seem like a sound definition of "epic," in that it does not seem to apply to most of the major epics. The Iliad is a war story; the Odyssey is the story of a man's coming home from a war, and sort of turns into science fiction along the way (or perhaps into seafarers' tall tales); the Mahabharata is a war story; the Ramayana is about the rescue of a kidnapped woman (come to think of it, sartorias, it's almost a closer fit than the Iliad to Streets of Fire); the Commedia is a sort of vision quest; Paradise Lost is fanfic about Genesis; I haven't looked at the Lusiads, but I have the impression they're about the voyages of Portuguese navigators. The only epic I know anything about that tells of a founding is the Aeneid ( ... )
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(a) the stakes are global ie not just a kingdom or even continental-level field of action but one where the outcome of the action will affect the whole world. So LOTR fits, because if Sauron wins, the whole of Middle-earth will be very sorry, and so does Aliette de Bodard's "Obsidian and Blood" trilogy, even though the action takes place in a very small geographical space, because the outcome will decide whether the current world ends or not. E E Smith's "Lensman" space opera books would probably qualify too.
(b) where the characters are not only humans but bigger things, gods and monsters, conducting themselves in appropriately non-human ways.
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