Okay, LJ seems to be shitting out, so this is probably a very silly time to do this. But I'm bored, and I'm kind of in a funk, and stuck in some terrible writer's block
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ON BOTTOMING! 1/2sarolynneDecember 6 2009, 00:16:57 UTC
So immediately, I come to a language problem with this--and this is a language problem that I think really contributes to the stupidity all around because of the associations it creates.
Dealing with m/m, if someone talks about the bottom, they normally mean the person being penetrated. It doesn't matter the logistics of the position, if the "bottom" is actually on top, or the more active party. This is doubly true if they're doing the anal thing--oral, well, maybe the person giving head could be topping, maaaaaaybe, if they are very much the active, in control party. But often, it's rather muddled, and still the person being penetrated (this time orally) is viewed as the submissive partner.
Now, this is an attitude that I've rarely seen explicitly come into het fandom. (I'm not going to bring up femmeslash much because while I've read some, I wouldn't claim it's enough to spot trends, okay?) I have to say rarely, unfortunately, because I have seen it. I can't say for sure if it was spill over from slash fandoms or if it's just
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ON BOTTOMING! 2/2sarolynneDecember 6 2009, 00:17:27 UTC
And maybe that problem contributes to this problem--the fact that many, many, many people, I would say most people implicitly, whether they really feel this way or not, possibly even myself, we all tend to communicate with our writing that the topping position is the superior position in every respect. It's the controlling position. And it's the position people actually want
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That is actually kind of interesting. Racism, in general, is a problem in fandom, in general, definitely, and I can think of quite a number of instances of racism toward the Japanese specifically right off the top of my head. Ironically, in fandoms for Japanese media
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Backlash is such a bitch. On the one hand, I do get where the vitriol comes from. I do. I get the unfortunate implications that can have. I get the social expectations. I really do get it. I get how, as a trend, it can be annoying. I get that! Sometimes it's done really, really badly, so that it seems like that particular female character's only purpose was to sacrifice for that particular penis-possessing person's sake. And that sucks. Sometimes it's just not done well and it seems like it was just tacked in because the writer couldn't think of anything better to do. And that's disappointing
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I get where the anger and frustration comes from too. One of my favorite genre is fantasy, and maybe I'm imagining it, but a lot of women in fantasy seem to exists to motivate/teach something to/love the male protagonists. I certainly understand the rage and disappointment. I love RPGs, and it is extremely difficult to find any with truly well-rounded female characters.
But at the same time, I hate it when people declare any women who shows any type of weakness in regards to a man weak and stupid and stereotypical. It's also weird how women get ragged on if the find motivation or drive because of their relationship with a man. One of the weirdest arguments I've heard is that River Tam failed as a character because she was a victim who only found strength because of her brother. And that's strange to me.
Now with the right account!sarolynneDecember 6 2009, 02:14:42 UTC
Yeeeeeah, that's particularly weird. I mostly read fantasy when I read for pleasure, so I very much understand that feeling. Oh, look, she's there for him to fall in love with and to help motivate him, and pretty much everything she actually accomplishes is just to make sure she deserves the hero.
I don't even know.
I'd like it if women found motivation from a variety of sources. I totally would. They should be! The lack of variety is a problem. But loving a man and being motivated by that isn't exactly a fail. Being affected by that isn't a fail. It's kind of scary how stereotypically masculine--being ruggedly individualistic, emotionally inaccessible and John Waynesque--that demands female characters be.
You know, I'm not sure I can get a rant out of it, but I am constantly amused by depictions of hair in fiction. Not even just anime, but pretty much anything. Fantasy lit. Western movies. It doesn't matter. It tends to be ridiculous.
Yes, we believe your hair will be gloriously clean and bouncy as you're fighting demons. Really. Or just in Medieval Europe in general. They were really big on regular showers and hair product back then! Oh, wait...
I mean. I admit it. I like pretty hair. I like drawings of pretty hair. I like characters who have pretty hair. But it just gets ridiculous sometimes. I'm sorry, kids, if you're traveling through a pre-industrial fanasty world, you probably won't actually have lovely flowing white hair down to your knees.
It's just not all that likely.
And if you're a ninja, anime and manga world, it's amazing no one's just grabbed a fist full of that stuff. Or at least, that it doesn't happen more often. There's a reason Roman men wore their hair short. Long hair? Kind of easy to take advantage of.
I don't know that that bothers me, as such, except for the way people justify it. I realize that something like 8% of people in real life are actually gay (I don't remember the actual statistics off the top of my head, so you know, that's not an actual claim for how many there are, just a ballpark sort of number), but the fact is I don't really care if people's stories reflect that. I don't really care if the numbers aren't realistic.
What bugs me is 1) the forgetting that guys can in fact be bisexual. They don't have to be at one end of the spectrum or the other. You don't have to argue that they've never been attracted to a woman ever before. You just have to convince me that they'd be attracted to a man. It doesn't have to be freaking oppositional like that.
And 2) how they justify it. Look, if they're attracted to men, they're gay. I don't care if their hair is long and pretty. I don't care if they seem "girly" or wear fashionable clothes. I don't care if they're somehow femme-seeming to you--and that is normally how I see that
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YES. That's exactly what I meant. There's way too many interpretations of possibly-and-probably-are-straight characters being gay. And...yeah, bullet point #2 said it all.
I yearn to see ficcage of most-likely/definitely-are-straight-characters written as straight. Just because it would be refreshing. But quite frankly, I've rarely ever--actually, I probably have never seen that.
Comments 27
The word "deserve" in fandom.
Sexist language in fandom...particularly when bashing characters (see: Sasuke)
Bottoming =/= being weak and submissive.
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So I'll just pick one and start. And then maybe come back to the others.
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Dealing with m/m, if someone talks about the bottom, they normally mean the person being penetrated. It doesn't matter the logistics of the position, if the "bottom" is actually on top, or the more active party. This is doubly true if they're doing the anal thing--oral, well, maybe the person giving head could be topping, maaaaaaybe, if they are very much the active, in control party. But often, it's rather muddled, and still the person being penetrated (this time orally) is viewed as the submissive partner.
Now, this is an attitude that I've rarely seen explicitly come into het fandom. (I'm not going to bring up femmeslash much because while I've read some, I wouldn't claim it's enough to spot trends, okay?) I have to say rarely, unfortunately, because I have seen it. I can't say for sure if it was spill over from slash fandoms or if it's just ( ... )
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But at the same time, I hate it when people declare any women who shows any type of weakness in regards to a man weak and stupid and stereotypical. It's also weird how women get ragged on if the find motivation or drive because of their relationship with a man. One of the weirdest arguments I've heard is that River Tam failed as a character because she was a victim who only found strength because of her brother. And that's strange to me.
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I don't even know.
I'd like it if women found motivation from a variety of sources. I totally would. They should be! The lack of variety is a problem. But loving a man and being motivated by that isn't exactly a fail. Being affected by that isn't a fail. It's kind of scary how stereotypically masculine--being ruggedly individualistic, emotionally inaccessible and John Waynesque--that demands female characters be.
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The depiction of hair.
*twiddles thumbs in anticipation*
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Yes, we believe your hair will be gloriously clean and bouncy as you're fighting demons. Really. Or just in Medieval Europe in general. They were really big on regular showers and hair product back then! Oh, wait...
I mean. I admit it. I like pretty hair. I like drawings of pretty hair. I like characters who have pretty hair. But it just gets ridiculous sometimes. I'm sorry, kids, if you're traveling through a pre-industrial fanasty world, you probably won't actually have lovely flowing white hair down to your knees.
It's just not all that likely.
And if you're a ninja, anime and manga world, it's amazing no one's just grabbed a fist full of that stuff. Or at least, that it doesn't happen more often. There's a reason Roman men wore their hair short. Long hair? Kind of easy to take advantage of.
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What bugs me is 1) the forgetting that guys can in fact be bisexual. They don't have to be at one end of the spectrum or the other. You don't have to argue that they've never been attracted to a woman ever before. You just have to convince me that they'd be attracted to a man. It doesn't have to be freaking oppositional like that.
And 2) how they justify it. Look, if they're attracted to men, they're gay. I don't care if their hair is long and pretty. I don't care if they seem "girly" or wear fashionable clothes. I don't care if they're somehow femme-seeming to you--and that is normally how I see that ( ... )
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I yearn to see ficcage of most-likely/definitely-are-straight-characters written as straight. Just because it would be refreshing. But quite frankly, I've rarely ever--actually, I probably have never seen that.
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Ah, ha ha ha.
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