Caught In A Transformative Romance

[sarahtales]

So I was grumbling to people, as I do, about books. And at one point I was saying 'Oh, how can someone want Character A and Character B to get together?' And I was answered: 'Well, they're attractive, and get on well...' To which I: 'But surely that's not enoughObviously it is enough in real life, at least initially. But just as I demand little

Comments

[bookshop]

I LOVE this post and I agree with it so much! My favorite romance tropes are all about partnerships and 2 (or 3!) characters transforming each other: Lizzie & Darcy, Emma & Mr Knightley, Harry & Draco, Touya & Hikaru ♥, Miranda & Andy (Devil Wears Prada) Shuji-Akira-Nobuta (Nobuta wo Produce), Jin, Mugen, & Fuu from Samurai Champloo, and Tracy & Dexter from the Philadelphia Story.

I do think, also, that there's a lot to be said for relationships that are true from the beginning, that seem to spring so fully-formed into the lives of both characters that it doesn't so much change them so much as imprint permanently onto their identity forever: I think the best example I have of this is Anne & Diana! I don't know that I would call their love transformative, as I do the pairings I spoke of above, but I definitely think that their lifelong love for one another empowered both of them and shaped who they grew to be. And I love and value that quality tremendously in romances as well. <333333

*devolves into handflailing enthusiasm*

[sarahtales]

I am always mildly taken aback when I read a list of romances and some really happened (for a given fictional value of 'really') and some did not! It means I have no idea whether the characters I'm not familiar with had any sort of romance at all, you know, and this distresses me. But I agree on Lizzy and Darcy, of course. I'm not sure about Emma and Mr Knightley, actually. Hmmm.

I like Anne and Diana tremendously as a friendship, but I don't think that instant love and belonging works well for me as a main romance: the process of transformation should always be a little uncomfortable. Actually this point is something I meant to say above: must edit!

[twisted_twister]

This is exactly what I like about Miranda and Andy: the way they must change to become together, because who they are as individuals just can't fit - despite the attraction (and sparks!) there is between them.

Note to Sarah about this couple:
1. We talk about the movie The Devil Wears Prada and not the book; a huge part of the attraction between these two characters is because of the genius acting of one Meryl...
2. It's not canon but fanon; this is the most popular pairing in this fandom.
3. They are of different age, class, status etc - which makes the conflicts and changes they have to go through even more interesting,
and
4.It's Femslash (Andy is a girl).

Thanks for listing my favourite pair here; I just thought about it when I read Sarah's post.

[kathleenfoucart]

Wow. I never thought about transformation in these exact terms before, but I very much agree with everything you said. If one person in the couple stays exactly the same while the other changes, their dynamic as a couple wouldn't work as well. Hmmm... Now I have a lot to puzzle over RE: some of my favorite Character A and Character B pairings *puzzles*

And I'm actually playing with the "true name" thing in my current WIP, so reading this post is one of those weird "I'm not crazy, someone else thinks this way, too" moments. ;-)

[sarahtales]

Tell me some of your favourite Character A and B pairings, she says! (Short story I have a deadline for! What short story I have a deadline for...?)

[kathleenfoucart]

I was mainly thinking of pairings that haven't definitely happened yet-- book series still in progress or TV shows.

So Mae & either Reeves Brother, for one ;-) Also, I'm reading a Clockwork Angel ARC and now am Very Curious who you're shipping :)

Actually, the pair I was mainly thinking about is Brennan and Booth from "Bones"-- I'd thought she is the one that needs to change to make that relationship work, but now I'm wondering if he needs to change more than admitting his feelings for her. Hmmm...

I do agree with the person who posted above me-- Tracy and Dex from The Philadelphia Story are a great example of changed protags, IMO. (Though Dex's transformation happens off-camera prior to the start of the movie.)

[sarahtales]

It's very hard for me to say this, as I love Jem. (I love Tessa and Jem and Will all ridiculously, actually. Tessa the most, but all of them so much.) But, Team Will.

I think Booth and Bones both probably would have to change a lot, and I hope for at least a season where they are a couple negotiating things.

I blush and curtsy at being included. ;) Either, huh?

[sarahtales]

I used to think I didn't like love triangles, but now I realise that it's like vampires - I like them very much when I think they're done well. The love triangle in Infernal Devices is most excellent!

[tiferet]

This is a really hard question for me, because in general, romance doesn't get me at all, and it's not why I read books or watch movies, although I enjoy a love story once in a while. I may be the only person on the planet who likes Twilight because of Bella's frank admission that she doesn't trust normal people because they never get her and is attracted to the Cullens because they are weird, plus the bizarro physiology and interesting grossness around how Meyer's vampires and werewolves work. I want Bella to get with Edward, because that's what she wants, and I don't have any patience with Team Jacob because I don't get them--she thinks of him as a little brother until he tries to Nice Guy her into being his girlfriend while she is clinically depressed. That's not sympathetic. Edward is a sexist git, but he was born in like 1901 and Bella always gets her way in the end with him, so whatever. But the actual interesting stuff in the books for me is about why these people are the way they are, and why the world is the way it is--

[sarahtales]

Well, all romances, heterosexual or not, are not great if one of the characters is subordinate to/less important than the other in the relationship. Doesn't matter what gender the characters are!

I thank you for that interesting view on Twilight, by the way: I've never really thought of Bella's attraction to the Cullens that way before. And I completely agree that Bella's clear preference for Edward made me want her to be with Edward, as in all love triangles where there is a clear preference. I only get torn when the character is torn!

I don't know who Charlie and Amita are, I'm afraid, and I haven't watched enough Supernatural to comment on Dean and Jo. But definitely - independent ladies not made to design for the guy, and whose lives are not denigrated in favour of the guy's, essential for me to love any pairing.

[tiferet]

This is why I trust you (and Cassie) to write romances that don't make me want to scream :)

This question came up in the middle of me and azurelunatic's long episodic discussion of why I don't like a lot of the canonical het pairings that she likes (or at least doesn't run screaming from like I do) and why I approach some of her fic recs with caution because I know she is often going "awwww" at the screen at the same time that I'm reaching for the remote and grumbling

[captain_jezebel]

Oh gooooood points and I'm with you on Bella and the Cullens--that she loves them precisely BECAUSE they are so bizarre, and she feels "normal" with them, unlike with everyone else. AND that Edward is transformed by the relationship too--sure, Bella turns in to a vampire, but Edward has to learn that he can be wrong. Is there any greater transformation for a dude?

Was that just a totally sexist statement? Oh, probably . . .

[captain_jezebel]

I'm so with you on this whole transformation thing, and hand in hand with it is that they make each other strive for better things simply by existing. Jace and Clary in TMI being a perfect example, both of them forcing themselves to fight even in the face of horrible pain and almost certain failure because they want to do the other proud.

And this is why I'm so shipping Ivy and Rachel in Kim Harrison's The Hollows series, because they fight so hard to help each other be who they want to be, because they believe in each other so fiercely. I dunno if she'll get them together in the end; I am losing hope! BUT, the POINT is that I always look at what qualities the potential love interest brings out in the character. Sometimes it is change, sometimes it's a reminder to stay true to something already in place, sometimes it's about balance . . . But either way, the idea that love is not just about who we're attracted to but also who we need to BE is key for me.

Thanks for a delightful and thought provoking post . . .

[rivki8699]

I desperately want Rachel and Ivy to get together. And I'm totally fine with them having a three way relationship with Kisten. But Rachel/Ivy are awesome.

[captain_jezebel]

Oh yes, I would totally be cool with a true love threesome! In fact, I really think there need to be more of them in the fictional world. I am DYING for Rachel and Ivy to get together, I think that my desire for this to happen is perhaps a little unhealthy. I try to remind myself that it's fiction but . . . well, this is my way. I take my novels and movies too much to hear.

[sarahtales]

Thanks for reading. ;) I admit I am not caught up with Kim Harrison's series (my library had the first three, then I moved) but if Rachel and Ivy do get together in the end, I will take that as my cue to buy all the books, I thought their relationship was great.

Carrie Ryan (the Forest of Hands and Teeth) said that very thing about love triangles - that she thinks they're so fiercely debated is because readers see it's not only the person you choose, but the person you choose to be. I think she is very right!