SPN thinky parts question, try #2

[sailorhathor]

I posed this question on my journal sometime back in July and I didn't get any response because I didn't have all these new SPN friends then. But now that I do, maybe I'll get some response this time! ^__

Comments

[dreamsofspike]

Assuming that we're talking about an actual CHILD, like, when they're still in their childhood and not adult and capable of taking care of themselves - Dean would choose his child, I believe.

I base this on the choice Dean made in season one, "The Benders". He was asked to choose between Sam and the lady sheriff, which one they would hunt and which one they would let go - and he chose for them to hunt Sam. And I believe his reasoning was that he knew Sam was CAPABLE and strong and trained to fight, well enough that he could beat the Benders - while he wasn't so sure about the sheriff.

In that case, he chose the one he felt needed defending the most. So I could see him making that same choice and choosing his child, trusting that Sam would be competent/capable enough to take care of himself. :P

[sailorhathor]

That's a good point! The age of the child and his/her ability to protect themselves would make a big difference in who Dean chose. The situation would also make a difference.

I was thinking of what happened with Emma the Amazon and wondering if Dean had had a chance to stop Sam from shooting her, would he have taken it? Or did he know deep down that there was no hope for her? Sam obviously thought that Dean would rather die than kill her and did what had to be done. But I really wonder if Dean would have allowed her to kill him rather than shoot her. I honestly just don't know. I know he would have kept trying to convince her to turn good and that she didn't have to kill him just because her mother was an Amazon, but if Emma had charged him with the knife, what would he have done?

[dreamsofspike]

I don't think that Dean could have killed her to save his own life. :/ I think if Sam hadn't showed up, she'd have ultimately killed Dean because I don't think he could have brought himself to do it. :(

However.

If Emma had turned her weapon on Sam, and Sam had been unarmed, I think Dean would have killed her to save Sam - like if his and Sam's positions had been reversed. And that's a little different. She's his child, but he hasn't raised her, he doesn't really know her, she IS technically a monster, and she's coming after Sammy - and the foundation of his entire character is always "take care of Sammy". :/

But there's a big difference, in my opinion, between what Dean will do to save Sam, and what he'll do to save himself. :(

[sailorhathor]

Yeah, I agree with everything you said here. Dean probably wouldn't have been able to defend himself against Emma. He wanted her to think he would, and that's why he pulled the gun, but if she'd charged at him, he probably would have tried to wrestle the knife out of her hand. But shooting her? Unlikely.

Adam is another good example. He's not Dean's full blood brother, but he is his half-brother, and he's younger and more vulnerable against evil than Sam is, but when Death gave Dean the choice between saving Sam's soul or Adam, he chose Sam's soul. I wonder what choice Dean would have made if he'd been raised with Adam. Things being the way they are, it was an easy choice.

[kalliel]

I think the impulse will always be Sam if Dean perceives the threat to Sam, but in fic it could conceivably go either way. Assuming they were in equal need of assistance, and the kid was a kid, it might actually just come down to who is physically nearer... But Dean would be fucked to feel bad about it and later reject whichever "choice" he made either way. XP

[sailorhathor]

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, that the situation often dictates what Dean would do, but in most cases, he would save Sam. And yeah, whatever the situation, Dean would feel guilty about who he couldn't save.

I was thinking a lot about Emma the Amazon and how that whole situation went down. If Dean had spent some actual time with Emma, would he have reacted differently to Sam killing her? Or was it the emotional distance that made it possible for him to "get over it"? I mean, I guess if they wanted to, the writers could bring it up again and have Dean feel guilty about Emma's death, but as things stand now, it doesn't seem like he thinks about her much. Maybe one episode later and she was a distant memory.

[kalliel]

I think if he'd met Emma at a different point in his life, he'd have thought about her more. Truth be told I'm not sure how much detail Dean actually remembers about S7, because I'm pretty sure he hit that emotional cap pretty early on (and certainly by 7x10) and just stopped processing things, because there was just too much going on. That'd make it easy for things to slide off the plate--things that you (blessedly?) are able to leave behind. (This of course all being pure headcanon! But this is the stance I generally take with a lot of S7, because of the context.)

[sailorhathor]

I really wish that Dean had met Emma again in Purgatory and had some time to interact with her. It would have been interesting. Of course, then they would have had the problem of what to do with her when Dean escapes... what if it had been Emma who came with Dean instead of Benny? How would "Taxi Driver" have gone then??? :O

[bm_shipper]

I haven't seen Supernatural in a long time but hasn't Sam died like SEVERAL times? And I highly doubt SAM would want Dean to choose him over his child, and I think - as hard as it would be - he probably wouldn't. I mean, he tried to live a life without Sam once and even though it didn't work the way it was "supposed" to, he had some happy times with Lisa and that boy. Of course that would be a horrible choice for him to make, but I think he would probably go with saving his child, because it's what Sam would want too.

[sailorhathor]

Yeah, that's a good point, that if it's a normal kid and not a monster, Sam would want Dean to save the kid over him. There was an episode in season 7 where Dean had sex with an Amazon, not knowing she was an Amazon, and she had a baby that fast-grew into teenage Emma. Emma tried to kill Dean (because that's the Amazon code, that they must kill their human father), and Sam came in and shot her dead because Dean couldn't do it. If she'd been a human child and both Winchesters watched her grow up, I think it could be a different story.

[sailorhathor]

I think the situation and Dean's emotional closeness to or distance from the child, coupled with whether or not Sam can save himself, as well as whether or not the kid can protect him or herself (powers? hunter training?), would all make a difference in who he would save. Really, though, now that I think about it, if Dean had the choice to leave his kid with his/her mother and only visit them sometimes from the road, he'd probably choose that, because he'd believe that being around them or taking them on the road would only endanger their lives (especially after what happened with Lisa). Maybe there's a special situation where he would take the child with them (like if Emma had renounced her Amazon heritage - Dean seemed to be ready to take her with them and save her from her violent Amazon life), but in most cases, he'd think he's a magnet for pain and death to them and would rather that they have a normal life.