(Untitled)

[rynne]

I spent most of the past two days away from the internet. That felt...really rather good. Journey's End no longer makes my stomach sort of knot up--I think I've come to terms with it, even if there are parts I don't like and parts I have to fanwank. XD

Comments

[butterfly]

Oooo! I want to read those! I actually have been really craving a screwed-up Doctor/River fic with "Journey's End" spoilers. And I really like your Rose idea.

[rynne]

I've also been craving a screwd-up Doctor/River fic, but no one seems to want to oblige me, so it seems I have to do it myself. :p And I'm very fond of my Rose idea. :D

[sensiblecat]

Like the sound of that. One thing I felt they hadn't covered satisfactorily was that he must be in the same incarnation when he meets RS, because she recognised him. Quite how this will play out if/when DT leaves is an interesting question, unless they're going to write in a huge gap in time at some point.

One exchange in SITL suggested that Donna's memory is fresh in the Doctor's mind when River Song meets him, and still painful.

Another interesting interpretation I've heard is that Donna should, in fact, have died, thus fulfiling Caan's prophecy, and that the Doctor has interfered with that by overruling her wishes.

The whole of JE seemed to be an agonising example of the "missing each other by inches" theme first introduced in PIC, with everyone assuming the Doctor would be okay when nothing could be further from the truth.

[rynne]

I assume there's going to be a gap. This is the first series finale that hasn't ended with a cliffhanger, so RTD is free to set the specials an unspecified time later.

Another interesting interpretation I've heard is that Donna should, in fact, have died, thus fulfiling Caan's prophecy, and that the Doctor has interfered with that by overruling her wishes.

I just assume now that the death is metaphorical--though Donna is still alive, the DoctorDonna isn't really anymore.

The whole of JE seemed to be an agonising example of the "missing each other by inches" theme first introduced in PIC, with everyone assuming the Doctor would be okay when nothing could be further from the truth.

Out of all the things about that ending that leave me unsatisfied, that's the biggest thing. I want the Doctor to be okay, but I can no longer trust RTD to do that for me, so I guess I'm going to have to do it myself. :p

[jedinic]

I really don't have any intelligent comments to make here, other than that I really enjoyed reading this! So much fun theorising and speculation.

It's weird how I can *like* the idea of River now, because it's not so much at the expense of Rose. Plus we know she dies anyway so it'll never be forever.

One thing about his 'old eyes'... I took that to mean that it was because he always knew of River's death when he met her, and part of her could see that.

[rynne]

Well, I still don't like the idea of River, because I never thought that appeared a healthy relationship, which makes me sad for the Doctor. Which is why I'm going to give him Rose back after he has to deal with River. :p

[rynne]

I just saw your post (linked from the_spdn) about D/Rose and D/River, and now I'm sorta not sure how to reply to this comment, because I think we see the D/River relationship in fundamentally different ways. I think the Doctor, and this relationship, are more complicated than "obligation to the timelines", but frankly I can't imagine it was a healthy relationship, just by the way River interacted with him and talked about him. I'm really not interested in an argument, but if you're interested in why I see the relationship that way, I posted my thoughts hereI honestly can't imagine the Doctor putting so much of himself into another relationship after Rose, but I want him to be happy, so I don't object to him getting some love in the future; it's the execution of this particular relationship that bothered me. If you can see it being good and healthy, I envy you, because I can't

[rynne]

If you felt personally insulted then I apologize for not making the distinction between the two sections clearer.

I didn't think it was directed at me, but I do believe something related, so calling that idea the stupidest thing ever is...rather open to misinterpretation and offense. :p I think "obligation to the timelines" is a valid interpretation of the text, though I assume it contravenes author intentions. *shrugs* Everything's subjective, eh?

In the sense of general optimism I'd like to think so, because I thought that's what the audience is being told to think about it (which always, of course, runs into problems when the audience-member doesn't see "healthy" by the same definition as the scriptwriter, and in this case I'm not even sure I do myself.)Or just that some things got lost in translation. It felt like I was being told one thing and shown something else, and I'm pretty much always going to trust what I'm being shown rather than what I'm being told, if they seem to contradict each other. Author intentions

[bittybye2000]

The idea sounds fascinating...and complicated. I'll definitely read it.

[rynne]

Hee, always nice to have people willing to read! *g*