Writing the Underrepresented: Habits of Mind, Sex Scenes, and Political Action

[rsadelle]

Edit: The comments have made clear to me that I have done something I didn't want to and written a post that made people feel talked at. So this is a belated disclaimer: This post is about what I think about when I'm writing and what I think about this particular discussion in fandom. This is not a prescription for what you should do. I do believe

Comments

[idahophoenix]

This is really interesting. It's too late for thinky-thinky thoughts or comments from me. Maybe later, but I just wanted you to know I read it and am contemplating....(oh-thought you'd find the icon familiar..)

[rsadelle]

:)

[idahophoenix]

The thing about posting your thinking is that if you've touched on something, people will react, one way or another. So, imo no need to apologize.

One of the things that is so interesting to me is that what gets me off about women is so different than what I respond to about m/m. Honestly, I think one of the sexiest things I've seen ever is the expression on Willow's face in the very first part of the youtube clip I just posted on my LJ. I mean, that does it for me in a really deep way and I think helps explain why I'm less drawn to reading f/f for the sex...although the story is another thing.

I know this is not responding directly to what you wrote--but it's because what you wrote sent me down a whole lot of interesting paths in my brain. This is why I do like meta stuff. And then I run a go read a good cracky kradam fic and my shallow self is all happy too. YES. I can have it all.

[rsadelle]

Fandom has had a lot of long conversations over the last couple of years about making fandom a safe space for people. I wholeheartedly believe in the right to my own opinions and the right to talk about them, and I believe in doing so in a way that doesn't hurt other people.

Interesting! I'm not even sure what I like in f/f fic because there's so little of it out there. (Although I do want sex scenes because I usually like sex scenes.)

I'm glad this is making you think. :)

[megyal]

I'm thinking that I don't really want to rebel against fandom. I'm a person of colour, female, and also not American, so a lot of your posts about fandom, sexuality, race and other related aspects sometimes make me feel inadequate, as if there's something I need to know and I just don't get it. It happens a lot with other people's posts too, and it makes me dislike fandom sometimes for trying so hard at everything, or being trying to be fair to everyone, when my experience patently and emphatically explains that in real life once I leave my own country, and even when I'm in it, I have to go against a lot of walls every day, and it's tiring. I don't like things that make me think too hard in fandom, when I get daily arguments about the same things in meatspace, but I figure that's the point of the whole thing. Which is why I read the posts, because I learn a lot and try to change

[rsadelle]

Marie! I'm so sorry I made you feel that way. :(((( I have edited in a disclaimer to this post that I hope will help keep other people from feeling that way because of it.

I oscillate between periods of "No meta! Just tell me a story!" and periods of "Let met tell you every critical thought I have about everything," and I don't think either one of those is a more or less valid way to experience fandom. I'm glad you have fandom as a place to not deal with the same crap you deal with every day. I think that's an important function of any space.

I find it interesting that you prefer writing f/f in original stuff! I find that the more I work on my original m/m novels (and they are things I'm writing for a specific market I hope to sell them to), the more I want to write female characters in fandom.

[megyal]

It's good that fandom has that fluid capacity to accommodate meta and...not-meta

[rsadelle]

Fandom has an amazing ability to accept and accommodate such a wide variety of interests and participation styles.

Fascinating! Other people's writing habits are so interesting. :) And I'm always excited when people are writing about women. (Fan fiction and young adult novels are the only genres where I really read stories about male characters.)

I think it's great that you just include POC characters without trying to do so - so many of us (and especially those of us with white privilege - I keep thinking of the conversation that often comes up around racism and privilege that points out that white privilege means white people can get away with not thinking about issues of race where racism means POC always have to consider issues of race) aren't good at that. I am not good at that, and it's one of the habits of mind I need to change. Also, this is reminding me that I think I have your original fic journal friended and I'm not sure if I've read any of it. I will have to go do that!

I hope this is useful/interesting thinking. ♥

[inlovewithnight]

I disagree with a lot of this, but I'm glad my post was thought-provoking. ♥

[rsadelle]

:)

[morganya]

Have you read this post? The author touches on writing about under-represented characters as well as writing as a political move, writing because it's an important issue rather than because you need to tell a story or because you find a certain situation hot. Stories tell us as much about the author as they do about the characters, and the danger of crafting a story with the idea, however supplemental, of "this is not the way fandom at large does things and I want to change that" is that the author can turn the characters into authorial mouthpieces rather than characters, and what can result is well-intentioned but structurally shaky. I absolutely believe in writing more women and POC, but I'm unsure that bringing in "this is how I will take fandom to the next level" is the best way to do that.

[rsadelle]

I hadn't read that. Interesting! Thanks for the link! I think the key for me, which is also in that post, is that if you're writing a specific kind of story from a political motivation, it also needs to be something interesting to you as a writer. I do think it can be done - the set of feedback I'm most proud of are the comments pointing out how much people liked the feminist aspects of "You Have My Heart (In Your Hands)," which is a story where I was very aware as I was writing that I wanted to make it a feminist story - and that post gives a lot of really good hints on how to do it.

[westingturtle]

On the Gabe/Victoria marriage story I can see where you're coming from on the connotations of "a woman's job is to take care of her spouse" but without reading it I can only say A)How much of Victoria's character is based on that aspect? and B) What does Gabe do for Victoria?

I will say that what I've enjoyed reading in your fic is the way so many cliches, especially heterosexual, stereotyped situation cliches have been avoided. In You Have My Heart (In Your Hands) there were so many places where I was half expecting "and then they had sex" or "and then they were desperately in love" as a shortcut to characterization, but your writing made it clear that they were people, not storytelling tricks. I loved that the sense of family came first.

I guess what that boils down to (and following my own narrative kinks) if you make them real as people as opposed to plot devices, I think you can make it a person's action as opposed to a cultural stereotype, and I think that's something you've been successful at in the past.

[rsadelle]

I think that question B - What does Gabe do for Victoria? - is part of what I'm not sure about in the story. My beta reader also said she needs stronger motivation for staying married; maybe that's part of what I need to work on it.

♥ Thank you so much. I'm still incredibly proud of how that story turned out and how much people liked it.

Yes, that real people thing is the thing that comes up over and over again. I'm glad to know it's working for me so far!