Torchwood 4x07 "Immortal Sins" meta: 3 parallels

[rose71]

Surprise! My favorite episode of Miracle Day, so far, is the one that involves historical flashbacks, dysfunctional romance, a long conversation about friendship, and no exploding helicopters. Okay, not surprising at all. I didn't like the earlier episodes enough to post about them, but I loved "Immortal Sins," and have some thoughts that I'd

Comments

[azn_jack_fiend]

Wow, this is great! The Doctor parallel jumped out at me too, and I think Jack was trying to make up for the Doctor abandoning him, as well. Will post more later, running out of time too :-(

[rose71]

Thanks! I would love to hear more from you, but I definitely understand being too busy.

I think Jack was trying to make up for the Doctor abandoning him, as well.
So true, and so sad (especially that moment where Jack is hugging that shirt and thinking of the Doctor). It's like--if Jack can't be with the Doctor, he'll try being the Doctor. There's a fine line between love and identification, as happens in so many relationships, but especially in this one.

[51stcenturyfox]

Fabuloso! I'll have more coherent thoughts tomorrow when I'm not so sleepy! <3

[rose71]

Woo-hoo! Thanks for the lovely comment, and I'll look forward to more of your thoughts if/when you have time.

[lynnenne]

Great insights! I love your thoughts on Gwen and her choice between Torchwood and Family. But it is sort of a gendered dilemma, isn't it? Gwen is a mother, and I can't help but wonder if the writers would ever have written the same story about Rex or Ianto, if either of them had children. Indeed, Rex just lost someone important to him, but there was no indication that he even thought about giving up the mission as a result.

Sort of highlights the struggle that women everywhere still face - the choice between career and children.

Also, 51stcenturyfox pointed out the parallels between Angelo and John Hart, made explicit in the scene where Jack falls off the rooftop. "Men like you kill me." That made me squee a little. :)

[rose71]

But it is sort of a gendered dilemma, isn't it?
Yes, yes, yes, yes! And also, yes again. I've been thinking the same thing, but couldn't figure out how to talk about this issue without writing pages and pages of rant, because I have really been struggling with how Gwen is gendered in MD (as I discussed in my comments on joking's amazing meta about Jack and gender). Your insightful comment helped me to see the most relevant points, and I just added a new paragraph to this meta in response to you. Thanks! <3

Oh yes, that was a wonderful point about Angelo and John Hart--even if we are all debating about which scene came first in Jack's personal timeline. The parallels, they are everywhere!

[lynnenne]

Glad you found my comments helpful. Gwen remains my hero, even if her struggles this season are more gendered than in previous years.

[rose71]

Gwen is still my hero, too! And I actually find her gendered dilemmas very sympathetic, even if I am still trying to figure out whether the show is being self-aware about gender or not.

I love your Gwen icons, by the way!

[joking]

Woohoo! You wrote Miracle Day meta!

I think Gwen's case shows how impossible a bind it really is. She's told, like all women are, that she can have it all. And she thinks she can, because as she said in "Immortal Sins", she thought she was special. She was a superhero who could save the world and have a family. She's humbler now, and she realizes she has to make tough choices

[rose71]

Woohoo! You read my meta and wrote comments that take the discussion in interesting new directions. My work here is complete. *smile*

Just a quick response, in case I never get a real break from work in the next few days...

Yet I don't think even Doctor Who tries to pretend that taking on companions is without consequence. The Doctor turns his companions into weapons, often against himself (think long and hard about what we found out about River in "AGMGTW"). Torchwood is more unflinching about it, but that specter looms in both shows. Agh, I could write a whole meta on this theme alone.
Yes, those are great points, and I would love to see that meta. RTD & Co. do like to talk about TW as the "adult" show where you can show the really horrible consequences that are not possible in the "children's" show DW, but of course it's more complicated than that! Especially if we think about the mirroring between Jack and the Doctor going two ways.

Jack is so wrong that the Doctor can't even talk about his wrongness unless there's a sealed

[topaz_eyes]

Hi, I'm here via joking's meta.

MD emphasizes [Gwen's] gun-toting badassery in ways that more overtly challenge norms of femininity--but also more overtly set up this gender-reversal as a source of guilt and irreconcilable conflict. I'm not actually sure whether the show is brilliantly dramatizing the real social struggles of working women, or whether the writers are giving into social stereotypes by portraying Gwen--rather than any male character--as defined by family responsibility. What do you think?

What about Rhys, though? He's defined by family responsibility in MD. For me that makes the difference.

[rose71]

Yes, I agree with you about Rhys, and I have always loved that about his character--Gwen/Rhys is a het partnership that breaks a lot of gender stereotypes. But my feeling is that, however complex the characters are, the plot of S4 is upping the stakes in ways that put Gwen in a specifically female- gendered bind. The Gwen/Rhys gender reversal is no longer working, in the sense that Gwen's action-heroism is now directly endangering their daughter and being portrayed as a failure of motherhood (rather than, say, a charming inability to cook as well as Rhys). However, Rhys's own domesticity definitely makes the story more complex, and helps me to love the show even when I have some questions/doubts!

[topaz_eyes]

The villains kidnapping the hero's loved ones is such an ubiquitous action trope though, that I don't know whether Gwen's action-heroism can be considered a failure of motherhood per se, though certainly it can be construed that way. Rhys was kidnapped and needed to be rescued too, still in keeping with their gender reversal.

If the plot resolution ends up such that Gwen must choose between Jack and Anwen, well, I'm still not sure if that puts Gwen in a specifically female-gendered bind. I'm not a gender studies expert though.

[rose71]

p.s. You are totally right to point out that Rhys is the counter-argument to my "Gwen rather than any male character." What I actually meant was "any male member of Torchwood," and I am going to edit that!