nikkud (the Hebrew dot puctuation thing)

[roga]

(This is like, entirely new levels of procrastination. But at least I wasn't officially planning to work today.)

If you've ever looked at Hebrew script and seen stuff like this scattered around the alphabet --

Comments

[hannahrorlove]

It's going to be humid in Ohio, so you're going to want clothes that direct airflow as needed. Skirts and dresses, or just loose pants and shirts. There's also a decent chance of rain - which I think is completely alien, but that's a Mediterranean climate childhood for you - so one of those small collapsible umbrellas would be a better thing to pack than a large raincoat since they take up less space and are easier to stuff into a bag.

Ohio is so close to me - why isn't it that you can jaunt to Pittsburgh for two days? My semester's ending, I've got a spare room in the house, there are otters at the zoo...

[roga]

No skirts, but I do plan on bringing one dress. Summer clothes I'm not worried about, but ugh, rain. Does rain mean cold or just wet? I don't actually own a raincoat (they're not very common here), but an umbrella is a good idea.

We're not actually going to get any time off while we're in Ohio; we're flying straight to DC from there, and from there I'll fly back (/o\) to Chicago...

[hannahrorlove]

Rain means wet. Maybe thick and fat, maybe just thin and warm, but it's not going to be cold, not by any means. I think the coolest it gets in Pittsburgh in summer is the low 40s, Fahrenheit. Which, compared to what we had just a few months ago, is peachy-keen and I sneer inward when my housemates call that 'cold.'

Yes, and after Chicago?

[roga]

...low fourties is cold, dude. It's Tel Aviv in the dead of winter cold. We're not exactly using the same frame of reference.

I still haven't finalized plans, but at this point it looks like Boston and then travel south back to DC and Baltimore.

[npkedit]

Huh. In yeshiva, we call them Nikkudot (pretty much every frum person I know here in NY uses that term), not Nikkud (my chumash rabbi was amused at my high school reunion because to this day I write Hebrew using nikkudot--my version of an editorial compulsion--and he still remembers my doing it).

[roga]

It's probably a Yiddish/Modern Hebrew thing, like Shabbat/Shabbos? Nikkudot sounds wrong to me -- my ear wants to hear either Nikkud or Nekkudot.

And wow, you write using it? You actually know the rules? That is insane. I mean, you're an editor, I shouldn't be surprised, but wow.

[npkedit]

Could be a Yiddish thing. And editing has zip to do with it.

12 years of dikduk in a Yeshiva did the trick (though I still suck at several tenses). Knowing the Nekkudot (you're probably right about the spelling) can affect translation in Tanach classes, so they start drilling it into you quickly.

The funny part: Rutgers had a language requirement when I did my undergrad work there, but they didn't give a test for Hebrew. I called the Hebrew department head to get an exemption and he said he would file the paperwork, but never did. When I went to see the academic dean to see what I could do, she looked at my transcript, saw 12 years of yeshiva in my file and exempted me out of the language requirement right then and there.

[roga]

Hahaha, that would probably do the trick.

And yeah, knowing the nikkud (sorry, can't bring myself to say it differently!) can affect translations; I'm still amazed that you actually know how. For me, the Tanach is half-foreign language as it is, so I require notations and explanations for the smallest things, both for unfamiliar vocabulary (which is a lot) and for words that can be interpreted in different ways.

[anatolealice]

This is cool! I still suck at reading and I'm not going to worry about ever learning all the nikkud rules anymore! I have not yet mastered the entire alphabet and the letters I know take me awhile to read. But I'm getting there. Very slowly. I don't remember not being able to read english so, I don't know, maybe I'm subconsciously getting a kick out of being illiterate. There were only 5 of us in class the other night and when the teacher left the room for a bit we were talking about what we found easier/harder. I can understand a lot and I'm ok at saying what I know and so was another guy, but the rest preferred reading and writing. We were joking that we'd all have to stick together

[roga]

Hahaha, that is awesome :-) Ani, on the other hand, lo ohevet vodka. Bichlal. Although I suppose it's not fair for me to say that since I haven't exactly tasted much over the course of my life, and I wouldn't want to offend the vodka.

Learning nikkud is probably ten times as hard when you're learning the vocabulary along with it. When I learned it I already knew what all the words were supposed to sound like. Still, I'm sure you'll get the hang of it at some point! You always sound like you're very determined :-) And understanding and talking is ultimately, imo, more important than reading and writing if you want to pick up a language and actually be able to use it with people. I can understand written French moderately well, but cannot for the life of me hold up a conversation...

[anatolealice]

I laughed out loud at the idea of offending the vodka. I think you're good. Not drinking it at all is probably better than drinking way too much and then spending a day in bed cursing it :-)

Determined... hee, yes I am. It's become my Mt Everest! (except I spend more time looking than trying) I'm the same as you with french and it makes for a different experience. You can read signs etc which is reassuring, even if you can't talk to people. But I think being able to talk to people would be nice. Meanwhile, it's all good fun :-)

[ethrosdemon]

It's hot as hell in Ohio right now. It was like 36C here today, so you don't need a coat, lady. It will probably only get hotter until the middle of August.

[roga]

I don't even know whether to be happy or sad! On the one hand yay to no coat. On the other, I was looking forward to cooler weather than here /o\

TY for the info!

[ethrosdemon]

I don't know where you're going in Ohio, but the temp varies wildly by geography. It's cooler at night and up by the lake.

[roga]

I'm going to be in Oberlin, which looks to be not on the coast of the river, but not too far away? And I know we'll also spend at least a couple of afternoons in Cleveland.

[roga]

Swimsuit - check, rain gear... um. An umbrella and a pair of waterproof shoes will have to suffice as I have no raincoat; hope I'm not missing any other critical accessory.

I forgot about cantillation as punctuation! Which, right, since the Bible doesn't have any other kind of punctuation, periods and commas and whatnot. The only one whose meaning I know is the ֑ atnachta for a pause (semicolon?); I used to know one or two others that were kind of like commas, but that was... a while ago.