Comments | rochvelleth: Prejudice and Slash

rochvelleth

Prejudice and Slash

Jan 11, 2009 17:15

It's interesting what people are prejudiced about, isn't it? I was just thinking about sexism because of a certain post I was replying to, and about having been bullied for being northern. And this morning I caught a bit of that morning debate show (the one Richard Dawkins sometimes turns up on), and they were talking about religion discriminating ( Read more... )

northernness, slash, me, argument, discussion, prejudice, random

Comments 15

naath January 11 2009, 17:44:58 UTC

Well, you could be anti-slash on the same grounds as being anti-fanfic (intellectual property of the author). But I think that being anti-slash (that is anti the *existence* of slash) whilst being pro-fanfic is homophobic.

Not wanting to *read* slash is just a preference.

naath January 11 2009, 17:58:57 UTC

That is... because I really can't see any *reason* to think that slash is horribly evil *whilst* thinking that het-fic is *not* also horribly evil *other* than thinking that gay people are evil. If writing or reading slash doesn't float your boat then that's cool; but saying that other people *shouldn't* because *eeeeew gay people* - that's homophobic.

rochvelleth January 12 2009, 12:30:04 UTC

The reasons I've heard given by people who find slash offensive (or wish to ban it in some circumstances) are:

1) that in the original fandom the characters are not gay (and I assume there's quite a lot of emotional attachment to the characters as heterosexuals and so on that goes hand-in-hand with this)

2) that the community they are involved in is family-friendly, and so potentially anything could be seen by children - and slash isn't appropriate for children (I assume this also means that all explicit sexual references of any kind are unwelcome, otherwise it is obviously biased against homosexuality)

I can understand the second reason, as long as it does apply to everything - though I'm not saying that I think children should be protected from things like slash (I'm not sure of my exact opinions there, though I'm inclined towards full openness ( ... )

naath January 12 2009, 13:57:43 UTC

Well obviously many people are very OTP about certain pairings. If you say Harry/Ginny is your OTP and that seeing Harry/anyone-else is something that you don't want... then that's not homophobic. But still, that's not an argument for people to not write Harry/Draco (or Harry/Hermione)... it's an argument that people should clearly label their fic so that people don't read things that they don't like ( ... )

Thread 5

liviapenn January 11 2009, 18:29:32 UTC

Then I was thinking about slash, because {stuff}, and wondering whether a ban on slash can constitute homophobia (which I've heard people say, though I won't go into the specifics or even name the fandom). Considering that slash is fictional, I find it difficult to follow this argument.Slash is fictional, but homosexuality is real, and in general, when someone says "I don't want to read this story solely because it deals with homosexuality," it's kind of hard to understand why they'd say that *unless* they have some sort of real-world problem with homosexuality ( ... )

rochvelleth January 12 2009, 12:39:35 UTC

Now, I can understand people who don't want to read fanfic that is focused exclusively on romance. And I can understand people who like romance, but don't enjoy reading pornography, so they prefer only non-explicit stories. And I can understand people who only want to read *canonical* romances and not non-canonical pairings. So if people want to forbid/not read any of those particular things, that's understandable.

Yes, thank you, you're putting that much better than I could. I think it's the non-canonical aspect that I'm not sure about, in the sense that I don't know whether it's offensive to object to slash purely on the grounds that it's non-canonical. If that makes sense. I'm not sure whether that's like restricting the characters' potential sexuality (which perhaps hasn't been fully explored in the canon, or at least this could be posited), or whether it's something that's easy to understand and not based at all on sexuality anyway. I'm not sure whether this makes sense either, actually, sorry.

Well, there are many gay and ( ... )

livredor January 11 2009, 19:26:06 UTC

Interesting thoughts, but I just wanted to point out this is public, and you imply there might be dire consequences if the wrong people saw it, so you might want to fix that.

rochvelleth January 12 2009, 12:04:37 UTC

Thank you! I'm so bad at remembering to do the filtering or comment restricting that I say I'm going to do. Let's hope I haven't managed to offend anyone too badly.

darkentwisted January 11 2009, 20:03:29 UTC

To each his or her own I always say. I am out there in more ways than just sexually. I'm so open minded, my brain just might fall out if not contained in cranium.

It is a sad place we live in where there are so many backward thinkers but we do.

Salons, such as this, lift the veil to rational thinking.

*Starts Applause*

rochvelleth January 12 2009, 12:51:59 UTC

Thanks :) Open-mindedness is a very important trait, I think. Especially in a world that offers increasing opportunities for integration in all sorts of ways - I hope we take them.

linnhie January 13 2009, 00:12:33 UTC

As a member of the same forum where this happened, and therefore knowing what comments evoked this response, I have to say (possibly unhelpfully) that I can see both points of view ( ... )

rochvelleth January 13 2009, 07:41:22 UTC

I knew someone would see this who would understand why I was worried about saying anything :) Actually, I was especially worried because I thought posting this on LJ would bring only the pro-slash view - so thank you very much for giving the other side of it so thoughtfully ( ... )

linnhie January 13 2009, 09:55:31 UTC

I just hope I haven't caused too much offence over there because I love the forum so much that I don't think I could live without it! I genuinely wouldn't worry about being sacked from the forum - there are so many slash fans/writers there who regularly refer to their "indulgence", and I don't think, on re-reading the thread, that the comments were addressed to any one individual. I am slightly bemused at this current reaction though as I don't think the thread is particularly provocative - there is worse on there! I suspect it was the use of the word "homosexual" in the thread title, as most slashers tend to suggest rather than state direct. I can just imagine the site Guvnor having apoplexy on seeing it ( ... )

rochvelleth January 15 2009, 11:26:34 UTC

I think what upsets me about the assertion that if you don't like slash then you're homophobic is that people who don't like slash then feel under pressure to demonstrate that they're not homophobic[1]. Of course, when someone says they don't like slash because they think it's wrong to have fic aout gay people, maybe they should be called on to explain themselves! But when their reason is nothing more than an ardent belief that the characters in question are heterosexual in the canon (and I know some slashers argue that they aren't, but I don't follow that argument)... well, it just seems unfair to put that pressure on someone for what is essentially a preference-based decision not to do or read something that can have nothing at all to do with a person's attitude to sexuality ( ... )