Of basins and lockets, Dumbledore and Snape

Jul 18, 2005 18:04

Or, in other words, the refined version of the theories I've been expounding on for the past week or so, in one handy linkable place (for those of you who've been asking if they could link). Thanks to everyone who contributed suggestions, objections, and questions for me to answer -- the idea has been much improved and refined in the process.

The [Hor]crux of the Matter: An Essay With Many Spoilers )

hp, hbp, essays, theories, snape

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Comments 123

yahtzee63 July 18 2005, 22:18:08 UTC
I don't think Dumbledore could have drunk the horcrux, because RAB got there first. RAB got the original locket, and from this it stands to reason that he/she got it by also drinking the potion/having an accomplice drink it. (All elements appear to have been replaced as they were before, with the exception of the locket, as RAB's note suggests.) Therefore, even if the potion had been a horcrux to begin with, it would have been gotten rid of and replaced by something similarly horrifying (but by necessity not containing Voldemort's soul) long before Dumbledore ever got there ( ... )

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rj_anderson July 18 2005, 22:29:33 UTC
But you've missed the part where I explained that RAB never got to the cave horcrux first, because he was never in the cave and could not have been in the cave (because he would have needed an accomplice to help him drink the potion and get past the Inferi after he'd drunk the potion, and the boat would only hold one adult wizard). RAB got the locket from his mother's house at Grimmauld Place (where Dumbledore found his replacement locket and note), not the cave. He probably never even knew of the existence of the cave ( ... )

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yahtzee63 July 18 2005, 22:41:01 UTC
But who says he didn't have an accomplice, and that they didn't find a way around it just as Dumbledore and Harry did? My personal guess is that the accomplice was Peter Pettigrew, briefly wavering between the two sides of the Force (like Regulus himself); two adult wizards wouldn't fit in the boat, but a wizard and a rat could. This is only one potential explanation, of course, but varying explanations are definitely possible. And I don't mean that the locket is a red herring within the story, but for the readers, it would be -- it's a lot of information to go through in order to tell us not a whole lot in Book 7, if the locket and RAB are essentially meaningless to what's going on. Whereas if RAB is significant to the story, then this is an introduction; that's the purpose I think it solves ( ... )

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rj_anderson July 18 2005, 22:55:58 UTC
two adult wizards wouldn't fit in the boat, but a wizard and a rat could

Dumbledore said it wasn't a case of size, it was a case of magical ability. Unless Voldemort's spell mysteriously lacked the ability to sense Peter's magical powers once he became a rat (which would be quite the oversight, as I'm sure Voldemort knew about animagi), then Peter would be just as sunk in rat form as he would have been in his human one.

it's a lot of information to go through in order to tell us not a whole lot in Book 7, if the locket and RAB are essentially meaningless to what's going on.

But they're not meaningless. The locket was legitimately a horcrux, and RAB legitimately and heroically destroyed it, which is very important in terms of Harry's quest to find and destroy all the horcruxes before he faces Voldemort. Plus, Regulus Black's story may well tie into Snape's, which would make it doubly significant.

Still, I agree there are various theories possible and we won't know until we get Book 7. I just feel confident that I'm at least ( ... )

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autumnmist July 18 2005, 22:46:55 UTC
While I was reading the book, it occurred to me that the liquid/potion could actually be the harvested and cursed blood of a particular person Voldemort killed...

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rj_anderson July 18 2005, 22:59:12 UTC
Hm. I think Harry would have told us if it looked or behaved anything like blood. From what he tells us it was emerald green and opaque, but basically watery rather than viscous. Plus, the people Voldemort killed (or at least a good many of them) seem to have become the Inferi in the water.

It is possible that Dumbledore was unwittingly drinking the soul-essence of someone other than Voldemort, someone who had feelings of guilt and shame and concern for others. But I'm not sure who that person would be or how/why their essence would get into the basin.

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sodzilla July 19 2005, 13:58:06 UTC
...maybe it was Regulus'? Left behind somehow when he got rid of whatever Voldemort put there before?

A young, naive no-longer-wanting-to-be-Death Eater would certainly feel a great deal of guilt...

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risti July 18 2005, 23:28:37 UTC
I can't claim credit for this, as someone(although I don't remember who) mentioned it to me.

Kreacher.

Not a full wizard, certainly, but with definate powers of his own.

We don't know when Mrs. Black died in the grand scheme of things, but I've always beleived that she started to go around the bend and took a turn for the worse soon after Sirius ran away from home. If Regulus had control of Kreacher (as Harry now does), he would have had a second person to come with him into the caves ( ... )

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kizmet_42 July 19 2005, 00:03:51 UTC
OOTP says that Mrs. Black has been dead ten years at that time.

OOTP, US edition, page 102

Mrs. Weasley says
...what that house-elf's been doing for the last ten years--"

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malabud July 18 2005, 23:39:25 UTC
*bows ( ... )

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_regina July 20 2005, 04:32:17 UTC
I note with some interest that at no time has Voldemort had all six Horcruxes in existence. The Diary at least was destroyed before he ever created Horcrux number six in Nagini.

You know, it occurs to me now that Voldemort probably knows about the diary being destroyed, since Harry gave it back to Lucius visibly damaged. Wouldn't it make sense for Voldemort to make yet another Horcrux, knowing that one had been destroyed?

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lump_of_clay July 24 2005, 03:14:58 UTC
there's also the theory that Harry is the final Horcrux. Or at least the scar. And that's why he can read Voldemort's mind, because part of Voldemort's soul is in him.

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Harry Horcrux? malabud December 17 2005, 16:55:54 UTC
I find the "Harry/Harry's scar is a Horcrux" theory difficult to accept, on at least two counts:

1. Lord Thingy has tried to kill him multiple times--not what you would expect if killing Harry would destroy one of the Horcruxes, on which Thingy's immortality depends.

2. Dumbledore repeatedly tells Harry that Voldemort can't really enter Harry's mind without "mortal agony" I believe it was, because of Harry's love and goodness, and before the end of GoF, he can't touch Harry's body even. How could this be true if a part of his soul was already in Harry?

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rose_in_shadow July 18 2005, 23:42:46 UTC
*fangirls*

I've already posted this link at two separate HBP discussion places so the movement can be spread.

:D

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