A question for my American readers

[richardthinks]

A pair of superimposed maps* of the US and UK over at swordnboard has me thinking questions about nationalism and imagination. To whit:

do you consider English/British history to be your history? As opposed to the history of a foreign land (let's imagine, say, Turkey or Hungary or Morocco, without going too far afield). Is Britain part of your

Comments

[hwrnmnbsol]

I don't consider English history to be part of my national history, speaking from a very gut-level response. It's probably cultural, and certainly owing to a very focused early education, but my demarcation of the beginning point of my national history is 'Mayflower'. So: the reasons for the pilgrims leaving Europe is part of my history, but these are never delved into in any more than a cartoon level. Everything else is foreign.

Of course, in my dreams, I'm frequently British and in Nelson's navy. I don't know what this says about me, but I hope it's neither 'fetishist' nor 'traitor'.

[richardthinks]

Thanks for the response! Alas, I hardly ever remember my dreams. As in, the last one was perhaps 7 years ago. I don't know what that says about me.

[st_rev]

My grasp of history is pretty shaky, but 'my' history only goes back to about 1970.

[richardthinks]

intellectually I'm with you totally. I suspect a few hours on a shrink's couch might pull all sorts of dodgy unexamined nationalistic nonsense out of me, though.

[st_rev]

I grew up in Miami, which is/was as close to Interzone as the US gets, none of my ancestors stayed in the same place for more than one generation, my religion is Chinese and my politics are anarchist, so while I'm sure I have all sorts of unconscious/ignorant identifications with US tradition, I've made an effort to avoid them since I was a teenager.

I used to have a vague identification with Scotland on the basis of my surname, but then I discovered that my last Scottish male-line ancestor probably left Scotland for good in the 17th century, so...

I do like Monty Python and Doctor Who, though.

[richardthinks]

was it any good?

There's a ton of these now - salt, tea, etc - none as good as Sidney Mintz's Sweetness and Power. But I'm thinking popular history is the way to go: you get to tell all the old scurrilous stories that Serious Historians don't like to be associated with (though they love to hear them), draw tenuous connections and get praised for your imagination... and I think I'd just rather be the next Patrick o'Brien than the next Rene Barendse.

...there is the small issue of talent, of course.

[jordan179]

do you consider English/British history to be your history? As opposed to the history of a foreign land (let's imagine, say, Turkey or Hungary or Morocco, without going too far afield). Is Britain part of your heritage?**

If yes, is there any date at which it stops being your history and becomes foreign?

Yes, and 1775.

Yes, because the culture and institutions of the United States of America primarily derive from those of Britain: those which are not British are primarily Western-Roman.

1775, because that's the point at which we seceded from the British Empire (the Declaration of Independence wasn't made until 1776, but the actual fighting began a year earlier).

[mollpeartree]

I think this is pretty much my gut inclination too; Britain is us until the U.S. isn't Britain's anymore.

[cdk]

It occurs to me that law school has probably significantly changed my opinion on this question, since the story of U.S. common law begins with the Magna Carta. But apart from that thread, my gut feeling is that the part of my national history that takes place in Britain begins with Elizabeth I and ends with the War of 1812.