Meditation on the Ethics of NC-17 HP FanFic

[rhetoretician]

This may be a little provocative...

First, two personal notes:  (1)  I have no objection to reading erotica generally (no matter how explicit), although (a) I think that Porn Without Plot is generally a waste of time, and (b) brutality and cruelty is always a turn-off for me.  (2) I probably never will write anything NC-17 myself, in any genre,

Comments

[tdu000]

I wasn't aware that she had made such a stipulation only that she is happy to let others write fanfiction (as I don't write fanfiction, it isn't something I need to worry about). Knowing that she has said this will effect how I read, however. I don't read much that would cross her line, usually only if it is slipped in to a story rather than one where it is the whole point, but this will change how I feel about reading it.

[rhetoretician]

That's a fascinating reaction, Bel. I've been happily reading NC-17 material from writers I admire up to this very month -- because it's good, meaningful writing with compelling characters, and says important things.

For me, it's less a question of how I feel about reading it than how I would feel about writing it. Is it unethical to read something you'd feel wrong to write? Is it unethical to praise it? I've done both.

[tdu000]

I now see that writing such material is actually exploiting JKR's generous attitude to fanfiction and that doesn't seem quite right. Having been given such a carte blanche, I think that we should respect her boundaries and I think that applies to reading fanfiction as well as writing it. I never read stories for the sex scenes but there are stories I've read, and enjoyed, that have sex scenes in them. The truth is I will probably still read them if it's by an author I really admire but will just feel guilty about it. As I'm pretty repressed, I usually wish they hadn't put it in anyway!

[girlspell]

I was surprised to read about any stipulation from her. For some readon I always though Jo kept mum on the topic of HP fan ficton. Having said that, I'm very uncomfortable reading anything NC-17 in the Harry Potter fan fiction world. There are several outstanding writers who do this, and I still can not bring myself to read them. I guess I'm too inhibited to read this. I still consider it a children's book, even though the kids are teens now. When there are teenagers, of course you can't ignore sexuality. I think gratuitous smut is simply pointless whether involves a kid's series or an adult book. So, I accept sexuality if it's part of the story or even the heart of the story, but any other part of the story...out it goes or I won't read it.

[rhetoretician]

What I'm calling "stipulations" are the messages she's sent, through both her agent (Christopher Little) and their lawyers when addressing sites such as The Restricted Section. They've said that JKR is "flattered" by fan fiction and doesn't object to it except when there's a commercial angle, when the author tries to pass his/her work off as JKR's or where it's "pornographic or sexually explicit material clearly not meant for kids."

If she hadn't made that request then I don't think I'd have any objections. And, as I say, I do read the stuff the good writers put out.

[rosathome]

I didn't know she'd said that either. I just thought she'd vaguely acknowledged the existence of fanfic and indicated that she didn't plan on suing anyone

[rhetoretician]

Hi, Ros. (Why aren't you revising?) ;)

I sort of tried to keep the "lawyer" part of me out of the conversation. I couldn't help bringing up copyright, just for the sake of pointing out that the ethical argument would exist even if the law were different.

When Mary gets explicit she does it for very good thematic or character reasons, and it's beautiful. And as I've said before, if marriage is her topic then sex must be one of her devices; no way 'round it. The question for me is whether JKR's wishes matter in this regard, especially when the use of HP characters and settings is a creative choice that is truly optional. (Roger and Lisa, I think you agree, needn't have been fan fiction at all; it was essentially entirely original. The same, I think, is true of about 80% of NZC

[rosathome]

Well, I think it's obvious but he denies it. And I don't think JKR goes as far as Pullman does, certainly. But her books can be read differently by adults as compared to children. Which, I think, gives a certain amount of scope to the fic writer.

[bandcandy]

This is about my latest chapter, isn't it?

I also was not aware that she'd made this stipulation; it makes me feel even more self-conscious about writing the scenes that I have than I did before (although they're a far cry from NC-17 I do think they're firmly planted in R territory). Given the things that I was reading at 12 (The Mists of Avalon being the first of many novels with sexually explicit or implied scenes) with my parents' encouragement and approval I guess I have a more liberal view of what's "appropriate for children" than most folks. My parents' philosophy and the one I will use with Meg is basically that if you're mature enough to understand the concepts in context, you're probably mature enough to be reading the material (of course barring deviant sexual behavior descriptions, which are a whole other kettle of fish

[bandcandy]

Darn it - I had fake HTML tags jokingly labeling that first statement as paranoid ego but apparently LJ interprets anything inside that sort of bracket as valid HTML and discards it if it's not. So please consider that first line tongue-in-cheek.

[rhetoretician]

*Smacks forehead* I sometimes astonish even myself with my own stupidity. Get this: At the same time I was feeling guilty about writing this entry rather than doing my beta-work on your chapter, I was also sending an e-mail to someone else reassuring him that the entry wasn't a personal attack. And I didn't put the two together. But I do see your comment below about the remark's being tongue-in-cheek, and of course you know that the whole time we were IM-talking about the sex aspect of the chapter I didn't once raise this issue, so it'd be pretty low of me to bring it up here

[moonette1]

An intriguing discussion, Ken. I wonder how many people have written more racy stuff than JKR would approve of, but out of ignorance of her feelings on the matter, rather than outright disregard

[rosathome]

I care! And I think you're quite right about the limits of the fanfic world. It's a great place to start, but I think the 'proper' writers could take the plunge and create their own worlds and their own characters. *looks knowingly at Ken and Mary*

[rhetoretician]

We hear you. (And who's a "proper writer," Ros?) But it's hard. Give us time.

[rosathome]

Not me! I merely dabble an amateur toe in the waters. Though I do have a plan for a-not-exactly-fan-fic retelling of an ancient Ugaritic myth. Which is lovely because I don't have to worry about plot, and I can play with the characters in any way I want to. No copyright on 3,500 year old legends!

And of course original work is hard - but it'll be worth it in the end. Take all the time you want, I'll still be waiting to read what you produce.