Harry Potter - DH and the Nurmengard scene

[rhaella]

So I have, as we all know, been on a Harry Potter kick ever since I watched the Half Blood Prince, once again fascinated by all things Dumbledore/Grindelwald as I try to decide whether or not it was reciprocated. I’ve come to one conclusion that I wanted to share, because I haven’t seen it before (not that I’m particularly attentive!) and I think

Comments

[daphnerunning]

Also here via grindeldore. Um, I think I have a new canon interpretation of events now. And I think that if we could know for a fact that Grindelwald believed Dumbledore to be alive at the time, it would be conclusive proof. As it is, it's only a very convincing theory. And one I very much like!

[rhaella]

Yep, I’d say that it’s one of two possibilities of what’s going on in the scene (the other one, of course, being the conventional one). I’m glad you found it as compelling as I did.

[cupcakery]

Here via quibbler_report.

I'm fascinated by this, but also curious about how much information Grindelwald would have had at his disposal in Nurmengard. There's no mention of there being Dementors that guard it, or of any other prisoners (that I can recall at the moment). Obviously, there are spells that can be put in place to physically prevent him leaving Nurmengard, but what about the day-to-day pieces? Presumably, even if one can neither Apparate nor Portkey in, there is still the food matter, etc.

[rhaella]

I’d love someone to ask that as well; I could see it going either way.

I don’t necessarily think it hinges upon a complete lack of contact, actually. Dumbledore can’t very well contact Grindelwald and inform him, after the fact, of his death. Er… I think, at least. As long as they weren’t talking/writing every other day or something - and it would be very strange if they were - it’s still doable, assuming that Dumbledore was unwilling to mention the fiasco with the Resurrection Stone. And who could blame him, considering Ariana?

[cupcakery]

Yeah, I highly doubt that there would be a "O hai, I haz the Resurrection Stone now. Deathly Hallows Total: Dumbledore - 2; Grindelwald - 0." owl.

[rhaella]

I sent you the wrong comment... I am not sure how that happened. Probably had something to do with LJ not wanting to let me post anything at all. XD

Haha, that sort of letter... yeah, I'm sure it would have gone down well. (Though he might even have been able to say Dumbledore - 3, since he had found the cloak too. XD)

[lilapaddy]

That is epic. Truly. Brilliant. I hope this theory gains serious ground and that JKR herself reads it and either goes, "Yep, that's it," or "Why didn't I think of it that way? It's perfect!"

I like to think the love was reciprocated, too...

[rhaella]

I’m glad you like the theory. :)

I think it’s hard to argue that it wasn’t reciprocated… the only question is whether it was reciprocated romantically or platonically. Not that platonic love can’t be equally - or more, Plato would say - meaningful. :)

[orpheus_samhain]

Did Voldemort offer to spare Grindelwald's life (in exchange for something)? It only works that way, JKR said.

[rhaella]

Amazing-- I'm in a library and not a single copy of DH to be found. So I'll need to check it up when I get home, since I don't really remember Voldemort offering to spare Harry's life the second time around. Course, doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

Anyway, two things to say to this,

1) Would the offer need to be stated implicitly? I think we could assume that if he'd actually co-operated, Voldemort would've spared his life. And more importantly,
2) Kind of a moot point, as one way or the other, it obviously didn't work, since Dumbledore was already dead. It's possible that as much as they know about old magic, they don't know enough. Especially since Grindelwald's been out of action for fifty years.

[orpheus_samhain]

Voldy should mean to spare his life, like Lily's on Snape request, not fifty-fifty: I will or I won't.

I don't think JKR would give Grindelwald the same character trait as she gave Lily, so my answer is 'no'.

[rhaella]

Okay, so I did look through the DH chapter "The Forest Again" once more, and unless I'm missing something, I really can't find any offer, explicit or otherwise, on Voldemort's part to spare Harry's life. Which didn't keep him from protecting everyone else from him at that last battle. So where/when did JKR say this, since might already have been retconned.

I think JKR already gave him a self-sacrificial quality, one way or another. Whether it would have worked as Lily's sacrifice had, or he was going out on a limb and dabbling in old magic -- and I think if this had been Grindelwald's intention, it most likely had to have been knowlingly, considering how much they must have studied up on old magic to get involved in the Hallows chase, which strips away from it the sort of blind faith/love that was probably involved in Lily's situation. So I still don't quite feel that it'd have been the exact same thing.

[thedeathchamber]

I've only just recently reread the HP books again, and was thinking how endearing it was that Gellert would lie to keep Albus' tomb from being broken into... And then you come up with this! Which is so much more and which actually seems rather more plausible. Good thinking.

[rhaella]

Oh, hello there! I'm glad to have given you another option to consider. :)