(Untitled)

[redjel]

What?! Just reading an article about the extension to the pre-charge detention limit, apparently an opinion poll shows the majority of people in Britain support the extension from 28 days to 42! Delusions and fuckwittery seem boundless; what was the size of people surveyed? Did they survey BNP members? I can't think of anyone who supports the

Comments

[sythic]

I guess it depends on the phrasing of the question:

Question 32) Would you like to hold suspected terrorists for an extra 14 hours or release terrorists 14 hours earlier before they can be proved guilty? they are evil you know... (probably, well maybe)

to be honest I don't see 14hours making a major difference, I might if I were wrongly held, however what they could do with sorting out is their ability to speed up the various government functions to process things quicker, that way they shouldnt need to extend it!

[sir_ann]

It's DAYS not hours.

I can accept the argument that there could be hundreds of computers and maybe thousands of disks to decrypt and examine and that the danger posed by religiously inspired psychopaths is potentially immense. But 42 days still seems excessive. Apparently in the last major case the suspects were held for 27 days so I can see the motivation to allow further extension.

I've long tried to live up to the maxim that "another person's bad behaviour is not licence for me to do likewise" but where a genuine threat exists I don't care what is done in defence of the realm tbh.

I do worry about the legislation being used beyond its stated purpose though. Parliament is very naive about certain things and giving so much power to any Home Secretary is very worrying indeed.

[redjel]

but where a genuine threat exists I don't care what is done in defence of the realm tbh

Do you really mean that? I think that is the attitude that is driving such reforms to legislation. I'm not sure that we can be fighting the 'war on terror' and then institute policies that are so outlandish and restrictive, in terms of human rights and civil liberties, that we risk becoming as reactionary, oppressive and revolting as the organisations we supposedly defending ourselves against. And judging by the past of course it will be used beyond it's stated purpose...

There have been many mistakes in the wake of the terrorism act all which, to me, point to our inability to manage. I'm thinking of Charles de Menezes; those two men when the police mistakenly burst into their homes and shot one of them (can't remember names or find article - will hunt it out) and various others. The reactions are paranoid and excessive.

[glennkenobi]

"we risk becoming as reactionary, oppressive and revolting as the organisations we supposedly defending ourselves against"

I totally agree. As far as I know some of these proposals are as restictive, if not more so than during World War 2. I don't see our towns being carpet bombed. There's been so few terrorist arrests recently and for acts no worse than crashing a car into an airport. The last terrorist fatalities were nearly 5 years ago.

It's total over reaction which punishes us all.

[glennkenobi]

42 days without trail does not equate to more likelyhood of better evidence for secure convictions, neither does it necessarily give a benefit to police in finding evidence as you would hope that they have evidence and not just a suspicion before the arrest and detention.

It does give time for 42 days of questioning of suspects under duress, which makes it a gift for defence lawyers. Human rights issues aside, if the population knew the cost of mistrial cases and the millions wasted getting this pointless legislation through (which doesn't help stop "terrorist" acts), I think the survey answers might be different.

[redjel]

Was poking around more, it's not just the forty days part that's awful :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7207659.stm

[glennkenobi]

I love the idea of assett seizing from failed suicide bombers, who often make up the poor and marginalised sections of our communities.

What also gets me is that none of the proposals will protect the public from criminal nutters. It increases unreliable evidence.

It just removes the rights of everyone because the criminal insanity of a very very tiny minority. That's the lasting legacy of the Labour government. The terrorists won because our way of life has been changed.

[alien_radio]

morag dear, make sure you keep a pair of combat boots and a board with a nail in it handy, they're coming for us next.

this approach didn't work in northern ireland, it won't work now. it's a power grab by a bunch of former Trots.

[redjel]

Way ahead of you, already made ultra paranoid contingency plans with the Bee and others to escape their vile clutches!

Truly some of the things are happening are so astonishingly awful I can't see how more of a fuss isn't being made. My mother was Iran when the Shah fell and saw the outcome; a completely different situation I know, but she talks about how suddenly and swiftly things fell to pieces, with people's best intentions behind the revolution. When I talk to her about some of the changes in the UK she compares it to that and makes me panic saying she thinks it's time to leave...

I don't think it's all about to descend into all my nightmares, but it is a bit horrifying, hence (usually after too much wine) we all end up discussing 'Plan B' ;)

[alien_radio]

Running away solves nothing, I'm going to be there for the revolution if it gets to that point.

[redjel]

True.

But in what form would a revolution be?

I am fairly pathetic in my attempts to show my distaste with the govt. I constantly harass my mp with letters, go to protests, sign petitions and so on. Which is, evidently, not enough to produce any kind of change, those things should make a difference but they don't seem to anymore. I do know various individuals who are far more extreme in their protests (and also are very pleased with their underground secretive status, fighting the system, man). But those also seem to come to nothing.

It's important not to lose heart or you end up trampled all over, but most people don't really seem to care, even living my life (work, home, social) in every way i can think of to fight for those things i have a lot of people tell me how naive and idealistic it is.

[redjel]

You're right - fuck em! Let them stew in their own rotting, corrupt freezing country - I'm leaving! ;p

[redjel]

Ah sarcasm, how poorly it traverses the web when it is viewed by twits like me! Yes I know the govt. there v. scary. But i can go and make lots of money and then flounce off to somewhere lovely and be all hippy-ish and sanctimonious safe in the knowledge that I've got tons of cash... ;)

Excessive lab work or staying up all night watching ask a ninja and the president's address? ;p

Yarr James Watson not doing so well

Yes I like the bumbling too but he's still a tory at heart and comes out with some spectaular racist nonsense...