*clings* I've seen several of the conversations you had yesterday, and I was very impressed with the way you handled yourself. I almost sent you an email about it, because you were the one that made me put the context thing into words. I admit, I squick hard over that other picture of ponderosa's, but that's not the point. The point is what you said over and over again about how we need to be able to have the conversation. How this is probably one of the only places those conversations can be had. That really resonated with me. LJ did what they did. That's going to work out how it works out. But when it comes to the way we as a community handle it, I don't think not talking about it is ever the answer.
I really liked the way you put it here:This is a gift economy built on exchange of ideas. That dialog is all we are...The thing is, we don't even have to have a lot of suspensions. In order to be negatively effected, all we have to have is the *threat.* It's fear of it that shuts us down.
Because, yeah, shutting down that dialogue, whether as a result of external or internal pressure, is so detrimental to fandom as a whole.
I think it's also important to note that the piece that Ponderosa was actually deleted for didn't involve minors at all, and that LJ/6A have offically admitted that "the content does not meet the legal definition of child pornography," because I think that that's something that people are getting hung up over. But, in fact, LJ/6A deemed that the actual picture in question *may* be in violation of Federal obscenity laws. Now, "may be" and "is" are two different things, but evidently they are not making that distinction. To them, sexually explicit = obscene. That changes the rules significantly.
Because, yeah, shutting down that dialogue, whether as a result of external or internal pressure, is so detrimental to fandom as a whole.
Exactly. I agree that people seem to be getting hung up on something that wasn't the point, which is why I tried not to mention the other Ponderosa piece in my post very much. She wasn't suspended for that, no matter how anyone may feel about it. If, for LJ, sexually explicit = obscene, then that changes the rules *completely* and I think we're all in trouble and I think we need to discuss what that means for us as a community, because it can't mean anything good.
Fandom went *BOOM.* It's all been rather icky, actually. (Not that I blame you for finding it fascinating). I'm sure you can get the full story over at metafandom. This post probably seems cryptic to the uninitiated.
Actually, your post made a bit of sense, or sense enough. I enjoy your perspective on it, mostly because of the fact that you don't belong in the community for the porn-esque reasons (or the reasons that the mainstream fears it). Plus, you kind of approach it from an academic way, which makes it easier for me (at least) to understand. I guess it's fascinating in the way I view any subculture fascinating-- the reasons behind joining, the sense of community that develops within it, the existence of it as it opposes or reflects mainstream perceptions of it. I can see why it's icky being on the inside, but it's interesting to see how the culture adapts and protects itself in order to survive bpcs attacks.
Fandom is definitely fascinating, even from the inside. But everything feels so up in the air right now. A mass exodus is not out of the question, and. I don't know what that *means.*
I am glad that this post makes sense to you, though.
I agree, I agree and hundred-thousand times I agree.
And like you, my issue is the way LJ handled this; if they would have told fandom two weeks ago, two months ago, a year ago that they think fandomers are kinky weirdos and they'd like it to go far, far away then that would have been fine. However, to continually attempt to pacify us, then smack us down, well, that's just... *shakes head*
Yeah. I mean, it would have sucked no matter what, but I just really, *really* hate feeling like I've been lied to. They just need to say what's going on. And then. Well, then we'll deal with it. However we need to.
But if there's a mass exodus, I'll be wherever fandom is. I'm just afraid we're all going to scatter. Exactly! I hate 6A/LJ mostly for the fact, that everytime they do something stupid, fandom gets twitchy and in turn I get twitchy and start worrying about what we are going to do, omg, and plotting doomsday scenarios in my head, until I can't enjoy all the squee anymore. *pouts*
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Because, yeah, shutting down that dialogue, whether as a result of external or internal pressure, is so detrimental to fandom as a whole.
I think it's also important to note that the piece that Ponderosa was actually deleted for didn't involve minors at all, and that LJ/6A have offically admitted that "the content does not meet the legal definition of child pornography," because I think that that's something that people are getting hung up over. But, in fact, LJ/6A deemed that the actual picture in question *may* be in violation of Federal obscenity laws. Now, "may be" and "is" are two different things, but evidently they are not making that distinction. To them, sexually explicit = obscene. That changes the rules significantly.
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Exactly. I agree that people seem to be getting hung up on something that wasn't the point, which is why I tried not to mention the other Ponderosa piece in my post very much. She wasn't suspended for that, no matter how anyone may feel about it. If, for LJ, sexually explicit = obscene, then that changes the rules *completely* and I think we're all in trouble and I think we need to discuss what that means for us as a community, because it can't mean anything good.
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I am glad that this post makes sense to you, though.
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And like you, my issue is the way LJ handled this; if they would have told fandom two weeks ago, two months ago, a year ago that they think fandomers are kinky weirdos and they'd like it to go far, far away then that would have been fine. However, to continually attempt to pacify us, then smack us down, well, that's just... *shakes head*
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what the meetings of 6A management must be like! The Mad-Hatter's Tea Party, perhaps?
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Exactly! I hate 6A/LJ mostly for the fact, that everytime they do something stupid, fandom gets twitchy and in turn I get twitchy and start worrying about what we are going to do, omg, and plotting doomsday scenarios in my head, until I can't enjoy all the squee anymore. *pouts*
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