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[redbrickrose]

During the sex panel at writercon last year nikitangel (I think!) brought up the idea of the innate queerness of fandom - Fanfic is largely written by women for women - in many cases with the express purpose of of getting ourselves and other women off. And . . . that's true. And it's not generally talked about in those terms. That's not always what fanfic

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[hesychasm]

Oooh, I'd love to see more of your thoughts about fandom as a queer/queering/queered female space. There's a paper being published soon by some academic fans about this very topic soon -- do you know cathexys? The topic is one of her major projects in fandom. And there've been some awesome discussions about it over the years. Just a selection from the paper's background bibliography, if you're interested:

cathexys in 2003 - locked right now, but if you friend her I think she'll friend you back easily enough

me after a panel we did on the topic at Escapade in 2004

executrix on the distinction between queer space and homosocial space

aerye on queer acts versus queer identity

cesperanza on slash and women recapturing the BFF-dom of childhood

heyiya's seminar essay

Sorry to bombard you with links! I just agree with you, it's a fascinating topic and more people should talk about it!

[redbrickrose]

No problem at all! Thanks for the links; I'm definitely interested.

I figured it was being talked about in some circles, but I'd never heard it laid out quite like that. It was kind of refreshing when nikitangel said it in that context, but then the conversation . . . didn't happen. Not that I encouraged it at the time - I'm bizarrely intimidated by large groups of fangirls I don't know.

Anyway, thanks again. I will absolutely check that out! And probably friend cathexys *g*

[hesychasm]

Ha, I am with you on the intimidation factor. And I'm mostly interested to see what other people have to say, because when other people talk they invariably have smarter thoughts than I do. (g) But yeah, I agree, it's a conversation that tends to just get brought up, and people say, oh, cool, and then...not much else. Which is fine, because it's often just more fun to be IN the experience than talking ABOUT it, but...yeah. :)

[redbrickrose]

Which is fine, because it's often just more fun to be IN the experience than talking ABOUT it, but...yeah. :)

Oh, definitely. *g* I love the aca-fan stuff a LOT, but sometimes I feel like I spend too much time overanalyzing.

[regala_electra]

Lizard brain fics is a noble goal but sadly all my "I must reread" fics are emotional porn and not...porn porn.

Your thougts are interesting and I am glad you posted them!

Hi, my brain is totally fried. *zombies about*

[redbrickrose]

Hi Reg!

Most of my must re-read tend to be emotional porn too - but there's some porn porn.

I see that you saw my comment re: Knockin Boots over on Femme's lj.

Wincest does not usually work for me except in that way that you did it where it's more about boundary issues we can't deal with! Threesome with hot girl! Than OMG, we're in love with each other, which. I find sad. Really too sad to be hot. Yours is not that because it is thisside of true Wincest and, like, fucked up and emotional without being as tragical as I find actual Wincest. Ergo, very, very hot. So yes. I hope it's not weird that I said that.

Your thougts are interesting and I am glad you posted them!

Thanks! *g*

[regala_electra]

Hall again!

Wincest now works for me because my RL/Fandom BFF (heh) ignited is a Wincester. So like, I have to work out how to GET them to do the sexin' but I don't fall into the "AND THEY LURVE EACH OTHER" line of thinking. Um, and I believe that Dean is a top, forever and ever, amen. My feelings are quite strong on that and I get really vocal about it when I'm tipsy.

But I like to make things difficult, especially for myself and good god, writing Sam's POV just, clicked that ability to play with the line and tow it because I like the boys with girls A LOT and I like the "this is fucked up but we're not going THERE even though we totally are" charade that they're doing. Sam's aware of it but Dean's purposely being obtuse about it

[redbrickrose]

In my head I draw a fairly clear distinction between two different types of Wincest.

I don't buy Wincest of the relationship variety, but that's okay because I don't actually want to encounter Wincest of that variety that I would buy because it would have to be SO SAD and TRAGIC and really the most depressing thing ever. And I like angst as much as the next girl, but in order for me to buy that kind of wincest, it would have to be so depressing that I wouldn't want to read it. Catch-22.

Wincest of the we-have-fucked-up-boundary-issues-and-sometimes-shit-happens variety is really a whole different thing. Depending on how it's done sometimes I can buy that but unfortunately, it seems to be less common. Yours struck me as falling in that category.

It's Wincest and they don't touch and I loived doing that.

Uh, yeah. That was maybe one of the things that I loved most about it.

[cityphonelines]

It's funny how I know that I've read a lot of good porn in my fandom life, but for the life of me NONE of it is bookmarked, I seem to only save the funny, or the gen, or the emotional stuff. But I was going through the Lizard list and nodding my head.

[redbrickrose]

Honestly most of mine isn't either and I kind of had to dig. Still am actually, because I don't really have anything recent saved at all. It's usually the emotional stuff that I know I HAVE to be able to find again. With sex stuff I often don't even think about it, or I just kind of figure I'll remember where it is - or something similar enough will turn up. Eh.

It is a v.v. interesting list. *smirk*