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rebcake June 24 2014, 00:01:26 UTC
I'm actually pretty agnostic about Ben. He's sort of bland, and then doesn't, ahem, "man up" when he's pressed, but I don't hate him. He's doomed, and doesn't really improve his situation much with his actions. His only option to be a "good" person is to commit suicide, and that's asking a lot of somebody.

I read a great essay about him called Ben as Illusory Comfort which makes excellent points about how Ben is ruthlessly and pointlessly placating, even at his best. Totally worth a read.

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zanthinegirl June 23 2014, 23:06:58 UTC
He's a cautionary tale against writing off people, really.

I think this could be said about oh, a good 30% of characters in the Buffy-verse. Cordelia? Wes? Anya? Andrew? Certainly Spike, Drusilla, and Darla. I would hate to have missed any of their stories!

re: Warren: One thing I noticed the last time I rewatched season 5 was just how sneaky and duplicitous he was even in season 5. He was funny in early season 6, but there was always that undercurrent of "creep". He makes my skin crawl in very MRA ways. Women are a commodity to him, not real people. ::shudders:: His bot was really a brilliant way to show that!

re: Xander: He certainly has his moments when he's way, way out of line. But he grows up a lot over the course of the series. And he's consistently funny. I'll forgive a lot for that!

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rebcake June 24 2014, 00:08:44 UTC
I think this could be said about oh, a good 30% of characters in the Buffy-verse

Absolutely! It's one of the things that I love about the 'verse. Nobody is without sin, nor without redeeming qualities. Mostly. Just like the rest of us.

Warren's redeeming qualities are all frittered away by his overwhelming need to be recognized as superior. Willow has similar impulses, but unlike Willow, Warren's intellect and ingenuity are never used for the benefit of anyone else.

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makd June 24 2014, 00:29:03 UTC
Nope....despite how he went, I was more than happy to see him go.

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rebcake June 24 2014, 03:45:52 UTC
Co-signed.

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rbfvid June 24 2014, 22:29:00 UTC
Warren is the character I love to hate, but I really love his story. All that way from nerdy jerk and comic relief villain into really scary monster. Actually, he is the only one scary buffyverse villain for me, all others are too cartoonish (or not exactly the villains).

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rebcake June 24 2014, 23:36:21 UTC
Personally, I love to hate the Watcher's Council/Quentin Travers, but I agree with you about the very visceral scariness of Warren. He's just too believable. I've met Adam Busch, the actor that portrayed Warren, and am pleased to report that he's nothing like Warren. Whew!

Unrelated scariness note: Spike is not really scary to us, the viewer after The Intiative when he has his "performance problem" with Willow. When he attacks her before the commercial break, though, it's maybe the scariest thing on the show ever.

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