I think my love is tainted....

[ravenstar84]

Either my love for Snevans has been tainted, or nobody really knows how to write Snape and Lily anymore.

One of my favorite Snevans writers updated their fic after a long hiatus. I was happy and so glad they finally updated because it really is a good story even though it's plot line is pretty insane and involves Lily and James' marriage crumbling

Comments

[ravenstar84]

It is disappointing. If this POC is able to catch parallels right off the bat, I'd say JKR did a decent job depicting what racism is. I do agree it's fandom wide problem. I just felt like ranting about Snevans because this is my OTP, and I can't find that many good Snevans fics that actually address the racism in the books.

I forgot to add this to my post, but I can't help but think its due also due to privilege (and there's a lot of it in this fandom). I can't help but assume these people probably don't see racism in real life if they can't understand how it works in the books.

[ravenstar84]

"Oh, definitely. I've heard people argue that Draco and Snape weren't really racist because [insert woobifying bullshit here]

Or that Draco wasn't really racist because he though Hermione was smart. *cough*SIP*cough*

"There's a lot of weird class and race and gender issues in fandom."

Indeed.

[sailorlum]

From what I've seen in fandom, I have to agree that it sounds like privilege is at the root of the problem, here. Privilege and an unwillingness to truly walk a mile in another's shoes. Seems like a desire to deny how Snape is privileged in a certain way and how his (and other's) racism truly impacts Lily (and others) is at the root of all this making stuff up about Lily parting with Snape over House bias. Like I was saying to randomneses as we chatted about this issue tonight: Privilege + making shit up = batshit

I have my a preview (a working draft) of my Snevans fic up on my LJ here (for a small group on my f-list - you'll be able to see it): http://sailorlum.livejournal.com/162403.html

After randomneses read and gave postive feedback, I feel confident in saying that you will enjoy it. :) (I deal with the racism and Dark Arts issue and Lily is most def not a doormat.) Although if you want to wait to read the final version that's cool too. ;)

[ravenstar84]

Oh thank you so much! I'll take a look at it as soon as I can. There's just so much wrong with this fandom. Misogyny, racism, even classism. birdeyeview and I were talking above about how some in fandom actually look up to the purebloods because of their wealth and "importance". Which also baffles me because the books do a really good job of saying that the rich and "elite" are not always good people.

[sailorlum]

You're welcome! If I've done my job, it'll restore your faith in Snevans, LOL ;)

Yeah, it's really disappointing - the amount of misogyny, racism, classism etc. there is in the fandom. *weeps for humanity*

*reads convo above* Yeah, wow, I do not get the pure-blood elite worshipers. I share your bafflement. Lucius, Draco, Bellatrix, and such didn't even *earn* their wealth and "importance" - it was handed to them on a silver platter. And it sure as hell didn't make them better people. And JKR was pretty Anvilicious in making the point of "it's one's choices that matter, not what they are born with" so I don't know how anyone missed it. Unless they just didn't want to see it. -_-

I think birdeyeview is spot on in saying that a major problem is the black and white world view that some fans adopt. Not only can they not recognize certain faults in their favorite characters, but they can't recognize it in themselves. And without recognizing it, there can be no change. :(

[summeriris]

I have to agree here. Over in COS forum I've just posted on the Lily threead. What no one seems willing to admit is that Lily had very good reasons for ending contact with Snape. One of those reasons was fear for her life. He was associating with bigots who would try to kill her one day. Not for a crime, but because of her so called blood status. Is this so difficult to understand. Snape called her by a racial insult. That told Lily he thought racial insults were fine. This was someting that up until then she had avoided thinking about, but there it was. Out in the open, Snape believed in Blood Supremecy and she was his token Mudblood. This went so far beyond petty house disagreements that in entered into the world of death threats and murders being carried out. It's not difficult

[ravenstar84]

Yea...I'm this close to wishing they'd do away with that thread the same way they did with Snape and Lily. If Lily's character is going to reduced to "the woman who did Snape wrong", I'd rather to just do away with the discussion. It's not getting anywhere anyway.

And you're right. I do think a lot of these people are having a hard time facing their possible inner racism. Some of these people are fans of Draco and Snape, and yet can't admit that at one time they are/were racists. I see nothing wrong with favoring a racist character. I'm a fan of Snape and have no problem accepting the fact that he used to be racist. It's when people start condoning/downplaying the characters faults, then we have a problem.

[subandhu]

Well from my point of view and in this neck of the woods, sadly people who have never been on the receiving end of racism tend to believe it's non-existent, downplay it and generally ignore it. For many people, it takes a personal experience on the side of discrimination and humiliation to really believe that racism exists and exactly how horrible it is. Like the curious phenomenon of men not believing in sexism. Most of those I've talked to firmly believe it doesn't exist anymore.

[ravenstar84]

"sadly people who have never been on the receiving end of racism tend to believe it's non-existent, downplay it and generally ignore it."

True, which goes to show one's privilege, which many fandoms including ours are full of. (Just look what happened in the SPN fandom in my last post.) But as I said, the books do a really good job of depicting racism and how severe it is. And books only cover the basic stuff since racism in real life has a hell of a lot more complications. And yet people still don't get it. I don't know what else I can say to them.

[rainaweather]

I agree that most people who don't understand and deny the existence of racism, sexism, etc., have no experience being on the receiving end of it. But I think that's simplifying many Snape fans' perception of him. Most people I've seen (well, read) in fandom don't excuse Snape's or Draco's racism; they just try to understand how they got to that point. I think a lot of misunderstanding comes when people think that trying to understand someone's racism and feeling sympathy for that person is the same as condoning that racism.

[ravenstar84]

"But I think that's simplifying many Snape fans' perception of him. Most people I've seen (well, read) in fandom don't excuse Snape's or Draco's racism; they just try to understand how they got to that point. I think a lot of misunderstanding comes when people think that trying to understand someone's racism and feeling sympathy for that person is the same as condoning that racism."

That may be the case for the people on COS, but the ignorance coming from Snape fans/Slytherin fans that I'm referring to are coming from places other than COS. I think we have have plenty of Slytherin fans, but Snape fandom is larger than some of us give it credit for.

[summeriris]

This may pertain to this discussion or not. Last Saturday it was my grandson's 6th birthday party. He goes to a multracial school and there's about 20 children in his class, and he's friends with most of them. It's a catholic school and all the children are the same religion. (I think). Every child was invited to the party which was being held in an outside venue. I was very sad that none of the children who were not Causcasion came. None of them. My daughter was not upset, a lot of guest showed up with their other children and the places that had been paid for were filled up from them. I didn't know whether to be offended or not. I did think it was sad

[ravenstar84]

I'm sure your grandson didn't mean any harm by it, but honestly, I do find that pretty racist that he would call his friend Jackie Chan. (He could have addressed him by his own name.) I've gotten this similar comment when someone associates/calls me "Lucy Liu" or any other female Asian celebrity. It's the whole idea that "we're all the same" and this lack of acknowledging that we are our own person or something different.

As for if that had anything to do with no non-whites at the birthday party, I really don't know. Maybe this isn't the only time your grandson has said a comment like this and other kids have taken a offense to it? I can only suspect, but I can't say either.

[summeriris]

Hi, I had a talk with my daughter and found out she already had a STRONG talk with the offender. She agreed with you wholeheartedly and was annoyed that I had laughed at him. I do spoil my grandsons and I do think that they never do anyting wrong. With the older one this is not so much of a problem. He really is a little sweetheart, but one with a bad temper sometimes. The youngest one who caused all this trouble, he looks like an angel. White blonde hair, big bright blue eyes with lashes a supermodel would kill for. He is also the most mischevious kid you will ever meet.

[ravenstar84]

It's good that you guys are teaching him. And it's understandable that he may not have known better since he's still very young. I do worry because racist ideas are still emphasized a lot in our media when we may not realize it. (e.g. the fact that there's still not a lot of diversity in tv/film, or how certain people are still stereotyped and playing the same kind of character) You're grandson calling his friend Jackie Chan came from somewhere, and he obviously didn't learn it at home. It's just something to keep in mind because we still have to watch out for what our kids are exposed to.