Briefly touching on the fic in question, the writer is being, sorry, a complete douchbag wrt the a/n.
As to dub-con, I think this will vary for many people, but consider the implied sex scene between Sam [Jared] and Gen in last week's episode. For purposes of fic writing, I suspect most people would classify it as "dub-con" - there is a lack of ~force~ and it appears that Gen instigated it. However, for me, it is non-con because she did not consent to sleeping with Sam, she consented to sleeping with Jared.
It seems a murky area, at best, in terms of fanfic, what with the magical healing cock trope, and the "no, no, yes" aspect of some porn.
I don't really have a clear-cut definition in my own mind, so all I can say is, "I know it when I see it."
For instance, I would have been seriously squicked by the example you gave, had I actually thought that Sam slept with Gen at any point (which I am firmly choosing not to believe, given body language and verbal denial in the episode, but that's a debate for a different time). I've never liked the trope of someone sleeping with someone because they thought it was someone entirely different, specifically because of the consent issues.
Oddly enough, while I've heard of it, I don't think I've ever read a fic with the magical healing cock trope. I assumed that most of those fics (the 'healing' portions, anyway) were consensual in nature. Am I wrong? Assumptions are not good for me, it seems.
Character B ~helps~ Character A ~recover~ from it by having sex with Character B [who is always the bottom]. Afterward, Character B is all better.
Hence, Character A's cock helps magically heal Character B's pain from the previous non-con.
So while it is consensual, it's based on the horrific misogynistic myth that all [a woman] one needs to ~get over~ rape is for a good cock to come along.
It's pretty offensive :\
err, it occurs to me that you probably know the trope, so sorry for being all explanatory about it! It just irks me because it's based on the need for non-con to have occurred in the first place, and that is rarely examined
Hee! No, it's cool. I was just... mildly confused about whether the second sexual act was generally consensual or not, since I've never actually read that type of fic. Mostly because the idea, as you have said, that "all [a woman] one needs to ~get over~ rape is for a good cock to come along" makes me feel violently sick to my stomach.
I agree with you about noncon being an umbrella that encompasses all of the iffy situations but I have seen some people include very drunken sex as dubcon. The consent was given but the character wouldn't have if not drunk. Much like some real life drunken sex.
Okay, I can see that. I was having a lot of trouble imagining scenarios in my head where a "no" of any kind could be interpreted as a "yes," but my imagination was clearly lacking in that regard.
At least to me, if one of the parties involved in sex says no to the other, it's noncon, no further debate. My scenarios are all situations where both say yes but for one or both the yes is modified by circumstance. I think labeling a rape in which the victim gets pleasure out of the sex or ends up 'falling in love' with the rapist as dubcon rather than noncon is appalling. And I'd certainly label the Sam/Gen scenario (which I, too, firmly believe is an interesting hypothetical example rather than canon) as noncon. In that case, I guess the distinction from my second and third example is that Sam would know that the consent was not consent. If you had a situation where Sam thought he was having sex with Ruby, and Gen thought she was having sex with Jared, and they BOTH consented under false beliefs, that I would call dubcon
( ... )
If one of the parties involved in sex says no to the other, it's noncon, no further debate.
That's my take on it too. I was trying to figure out where people in fandom consider things to be a "grey area" as it were.
The idea of someone "enjoying" rape or falling in love with the rapist appalls me to such an extent, I can't even begin to discuss it rationally. Just no. No no no. No. And furthermore, no.
Comments 134
As to dub-con, I think this will vary for many people, but consider the implied sex scene between Sam [Jared] and Gen in last week's episode. For purposes of fic writing, I suspect most people would classify it as "dub-con" - there is a lack of ~force~ and it appears that Gen instigated it. However, for me, it is non-con because she did not consent to sleeping with Sam, she consented to sleeping with Jared.
It seems a murky area, at best, in terms of fanfic, what with the magical healing cock trope, and the "no, no, yes" aspect of some porn.
I don't really have a clear-cut definition in my own mind, so all I can say is, "I know it when I see it."
Reply
For instance, I would have been seriously squicked by the example you gave, had I actually thought that Sam slept with Gen at any point (which I am firmly choosing not to believe, given body language and verbal denial in the episode, but that's a debate for a different time). I've never liked the trope of someone sleeping with someone because they thought it was someone entirely different, specifically because of the consent issues.
Oddly enough, while I've heard of it, I don't think I've ever read a fic with the magical healing cock trope. I assumed that most of those fics (the 'healing' portions, anyway) were consensual in nature. Am I wrong? Assumptions are not good for me, it seems.
Reply
Character B ~helps~ Character A ~recover~ from it by having sex with Character B [who is always the bottom]. Afterward, Character B is all better.
Hence, Character A's cock helps magically heal Character B's pain from the previous non-con.
So while it is consensual, it's based on the horrific misogynistic myth that all [a woman] one needs to ~get over~ rape is for a good cock to come along.
It's pretty offensive :\
err, it occurs to me that you probably know the trope, so sorry for being all explanatory about it! It just irks me because it's based on the need for non-con to have occurred in the first place, and that is rarely examined
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
That's my take on it too. I was trying to figure out where people in fandom consider things to be a "grey area" as it were.
The idea of someone "enjoying" rape or falling in love with the rapist appalls me to such an extent, I can't even begin to discuss it rationally. Just no. No no no. No. And furthermore, no.
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
(The comment has been removed)
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
Reply
Leave a comment