Comments | queerasfray: My last thoughts on the "who loves who more" question

queerasfray

My last thoughts on the "who loves who more" question

Mar 06, 2013 19:42

I got tons of interesting comments on my last post in which I talked about how it seemed to me that Brian loves Justin far more than Justin loves Brian. Responses basically fell into two categories ( Read more... )

brian/justin, meta, ethan, should really be working

Comments 23

alexis_sd March 7 2013, 01:14:35 UTC

Yep, that's pretty much it for me (when I am being generous and don't feel like bitching about Justin and his immaturity). I've always told you that in my mind Brian and Justin never get back and never have a great love and happily ever after years down the road, no matter what. I'm kind of glad that you are coming closer to accepting that.

Hope you are having a lot of fun in this sandbox :). You sure seem to be.

queerasfray March 7 2013, 01:33:38 UTC

Hey you!!!! *HUGS* I miss my non-QaF friends so much. *hugs* I'm shit at writing, working and juggling two journals all at the same time ( ... )

celestlyn March 7 2013, 01:28:48 UTC

I sort of hate the need to compare! Who loves who more is really a destructive thing to dwell on. As a viewer, I only see what is conveyed onscreen and wish for that perfect balance between them. But it can't be. They see the world from two very different perspectives. In the beginning, Justin is 17! He's not even a very independent 17. He's lived with indulgent parents, never had to work or struggle for things he wanted. Brian is the opposite. He's older, cynical and has had to fight and claw his way up and work for everything he's got. I imagine that Justin loves Brian deeply, but he also replaced his parental unit with Brian. Brian was always there to bail Justin out when things fell apart and he never really had to suffer in the same way Brian did. So he was a overly-dependent on Brian. He needed to stand on his own and be the man he was becoming ( ... )

queerasfray March 7 2013, 01:52:06 UTC

Hey there! I'm glad to see you've recovered. I missed you (and was also more than a little concerned).

I love love love this comment. I agree with every word even though I hadn't really thought about things in these terms.

I've always heard that the one who loves the least carries the most power in a relationship and I believe that, completely.Yup. I tried to think of an argument against this, but I can't. It's just a fact. For a relationship to survive (let alone thrive), there can't be too much of an imbalance. Honestly, I think I could live w/o my husband better than he could live without me (although I don't know if that translates into who-loves-who-the-most). That knowledge makes it easier for me to take risks because I know I won't be devastated beyond hope if things fell apart between us. I know I'd be okay. But him I'm not so sure about . . . . . . although writing that makes me wonder if there isn't another dynamic involved - knowing how much losing me would hurt him, I do feel a duty/obligation/responsibility to ( ... )

(The comment has been removed)

queerasfray March 7 2013, 02:18:48 UTC

LOL!! I chuckled when I read that. In so many ways, Brian is a total nightmare, and Justin should've run for the hills *G*

It's not that I don't think Justin loved Brian; I know he did and he never stopped caring for him even when he wanted to escape Brian's (often malignant) orbit. But it's more of a challenge for me to gauge the depth of that love. It's not hard for me to imagine Justin ending up with someone else and being perfectly happy. I definitely can't say the same about Brian - he'll only love Justin and it'll last for the rest of his life. I guess the question is why I think Brian's deeply romanticized love is "more valid" than Justin's sane love. I've no doubt that comes from some deep-down (traditional heterosexual) assumptions I have about love.

(The comment has been removed)

queerasfray March 7 2013, 03:28:59 UTC

I haven't read it, but I'll definitely take a look, thanks for the rec :)

I don't question his love for Brian but he seems to be more... rational about it.

Very true - I think you're exactly right. Brian is not mentally healthy, and his actions & decisions reflect that. Justin dealt with post-traumatic stress, but otherwise, he's pretty healthy and grounded. Maybe what I'm calling "true love" is actually mental instability. Lol. Justin is sane; Brian isn't - who loves who can only be viewed through that lens, I guess.

(that is something I was never able to do, btw, I never left until everything was rubble and ashes and dead bodies. lol)Lol! *hugs* Been there, done that. But that said, the thing in my life that I'm most proud of is that I was able to walk away for "my Brian." It took a lot of crazy shit before I got to the place where it was possible, but ultimately, I left - and didn't look back. Whenever I'm feeling doubtful about myself, I remember that. If I could walk away from a man I worshiped and loved more than ( ... )

bksbracelet March 7 2013, 07:18:55 UTC

Yep what she said I was so appalled at Justin in the bowling team scenes where he acting bratty and disinterested in Brian and again when Brian opened a vein of emotion when he appeared at Michaels accusing him of brain washing Justin. He stood at the top of the stairs and listened and just let Michael abuse him. Love does not allow that pain

vlredreign March 7 2013, 07:44:51 UTC

Really? I'm...okay.

As far as the bowling scenes go, yeah, Justin was acting bratty, but funny how when Brian does that, which is often, he's just being Brian.

And as for 507, that scene is one of my all-time favorite scenes. Michael finally grew a pair and let Brian know that just because he (Brian) didn't want Michael's life didn't mean it was a bad life. And he let Brian know that his refusal to grow up lost him the person that loved him. And if you don't believe that, how about these words, from Brian's own mouth, two episodes later:

My mother was a frigid bitch. My father was an abusive drunk. They had a hateful marriage, which is probably why I am unwilling or unable to form a committed long-term relationship of my own. The fact that I drink like a fish, abuse drugs, and have more or less redefined promiscuity doesn't help, much. As a result, I've lost the two people in my life that mean most to me. This was one of those times when Brian was being dead honest. And the person he said it to, Ted, knew it. I've often ( ... )

hereticalvision March 8 2013, 00:51:08 UTC

Right on. That speech was I think the *only* time in QAF where Brian really, truly owned his shit.

queerasfray March 8 2013, 16:23:23 UTC

And Justin remains absolutely expressionless the whole time and then turns around to go back to his bedroom as if he really doesn't give a shit.

Thread 7

vlredreign March 7 2013, 07:33:12 UTC

I dunno, to pose the question diminishes what they have/had to a game of one-upsmanship. You want examples of Justin showing his love ( ... )

masterglory March 7 2013, 07:49:34 UTC

I quote every word you've beautifully written here♥, I totally agree with you!

And remember...marry me?????*g*

queerasfray March 8 2013, 16:33:57 UTC

I agree . . . up to a point. I notice you don't mention anything from season five except the very end. Season five convinced me that Justin was completely fed-up and didn't want anything more to do with Brian. I'm not saying he never loved Brian and didn't still care for him, but I think the writers meant for us to see and believe that Justin was over Brian once & for all. Maybe I'm falsely equating "getting over" someone with "falling out of love" with someone. We never see Brian getting over Justin or falling out of love with him. I guess that's where my who-loves-who-more question comes from.