RaceFail '09; or, Art Does Not Exist in a Vacuum

[puella_nerdii]

I've done my best to avoid the whole RaceFail debacle so far for a number of reasons, chief among them that while I can point and laugh at wank with the best of them, what I read of RaceFail gave me hives. I had, and have, a lot of respect and admiration for some of the authors featured most prominently in the fracas -- at the very least, I think

Comments

[etrangere]

So I end this post with a clear restatement of a policy I've always tried to implement: if I screw up, tell me. If you're in a position to know, and what I'm saying doesn't match what you know, tell me. We might not agree, but we can try to understand.
That, yes. I think I should put it on my user info or something.

Recommendation... I can't think of any women writer of colors you might not know, but have you read Anthony Durham? Fuck, I should know more writers of colour *is depressed*

[puella_nerdii]

I'm tempted to put it in mine.

I don't know Anthony Durham, no. The problem for me is that I know a fairly good amount of writers of color, but mostly in genres that I'm not fannish about. With scifi, I know all the old dead white guys. :P And a decent chunk of the women, too, but. I don't know, I'm just DYING to read scifi/fantasy that isn't quite so -- European?

[etrangere]

He writes fantasy! (and Historical fiction too, but I haven't read it) Been interesting so far.

*nodsnods* I see exactly what you mean. I know a bit of SFF books which aren't as Europeans, but still mostly written by white people. I need to try to find more.

[puella_nerdii]

*googles* Oh, I have heard of him! I've heard of Acacia, anyway. The skewing of fantasy tropes sounds goddamned awesome; I'll have to put this on my list of things to check out.

I'm just kind of tired of so many fantasy worlds looking and sounding exactly like a (highly romanticized) version of medieval Europe. (GRRM doesn't count.)

[byzantienne]

-- you know, I only read this because it's you. I've been trying so hard not to read these posts anymore because I have gotten so angry and so upset and so -- feeling like no matter what I do, say, or think, there was no way to be a decent human being in this.

But I'm really glad I read this one. Really, really glad. Because I think I can agree with what you're saying here, and maybe figure out a way to uncouple the rage and hurt from the very real need to find a way to talk about these issues. And listen about these issues -- especially that

[puella_nerdii]

*hugs, lots*

I'm glad this has been helpful for you -- I know how frustrated and tired all of this has made you, and I was in the same boat, trust me. I pretty much had to nail my anthropologist hat onto my head to get some perspective on the issue.

I think the intellectualism/elitism misread tripped me up for a while, too, because I get almost as twitchy about that as you do, but after reading a lot of thoughtful and articulate posts on the matter, I realized that wasn't really what people were talking about. And then I placed the "you're interrogating this from too emotional a perspective" in a context I could understand and realized how I'd react, and have reacted, if someone said that about me because I was a woman, and I went "ohshit." Because that argument does get used a lot to invalidate peoples' voices, and whether or not that was the intent of the people using that defense, those remarks sting, and they carry a lot of baggage. And baby anthropologist should've pulled her head out of her ass and realized that instead of

[byzantienne]

*hugs back, lots*

Yeah, the 'you're interrogating this from too emotional a perspective' thing is a nasty, nasty trap, and I should have gotten that one, too -- I'm a historian, I'm educated about subaltern voices! Damnit. And how they get shut down by the structure of Western intellectual thought, which does require that education.

But I think I've spent too long being incredibly defensive about 'yes, being smart is A GOOD THING'. And that prevents me, sometimes, from seeing how an academic/intellectualized reading can be an oppressive one.

I want to do better, too.

I also want to figure out how to feel less icky about the whole 'I can't do it right, EVER, because I have privilege' thing. Because that's the other place I trip up. The idea that I can't ever, ever be correct. I am such a Socratic, sometimes, still. ZOMG TRUTH. I should get over that but it's hard.-- hell, I still like Bear. I think she fucked up, but I also think she tried to fix it, especially lately, and that the fucking-up doesn't invalidate the basically-decent

[puella_nerdii]

psst if you can hop on AIM, is easier to discuss Things At Length there

*nodnod* I think so, too. And I know how frustrating it is when you're trying really hard and you still hear that you got it wrong, and I'd probably be tearing my hair out were I in her place. Hopefully she learns from this and moves on. I think she will, and I think she is.

[a_white_rain]

In the end, I might not agree, but I can do my best to understand. I can accept someone else's worldview as valid and coherent in context without embracing it and denouncing my own, and I think that's what a lot of people are missing here.
Also, sometimes it's more.. expanding your worldview. And that's hardly a bad thing. In fact, in my opinion, it's one of the most defining parts of being human.

[puella_nerdii]

Oh, agreed, and I think that's important. I guess I'm examining this from baby-anthropologist perspective, where the goal is to understand the native's point of view (native here meaning those born and socialized into the culture you're studying), not necessarily to make determinations about who's in the right or in the wrong, and I think the former part gets forgotten a lot in favor of the latter.

[a_white_rain]

I really honestly do get that, since I have a not so secret desire to become an anthropologist. Though man I think maybe since I've been reading lots of history, there's a real hindsight that sometimes things are clear-cut wrong (though mostly I'm unsure. But that's probably influenced by reading on the Koreas. HAHA FUCK I HAVE ANY CLUE HOW TO SOLVE THAT).

But I think you did a good thing. You vented and figured things out on your own/with friends instead of writing everything out for everyone to see. We've all got some racial issues and blind spots and often the best way to figure out lots of things is to internalize that on your own/people in the same head spaces as you.

[puella_nerdii]

Oh, there's some shit that's just plain wrong, yes. Cultural relativism only goes so far. But at the same time, people often have reasons for doing completely atrocious things, and those reasons make sense to them, and if we can understand why and how we can stop it from happening again, or head it off before it starts.

Join our ranks! We are geeky and awesome and write very interesting books. (Sometimes.)

And thanks. *smiles* I do try to catch myself when I'm being an idiot, and own up to the fact. The hard thing for me is, and always has been, understanding that a critique of a work I like is not an attack on me. Because it has nothing to do with me and everything to do with the critic and their relationship to the work, and I shouldn't make it about me.

[regicidaldwarf]

You know actually I was just about to make a post saying pretty much exactly this, only I think you said it better. :P

[puella_nerdii]

Hee. *blush* Sometimes I am articulate? It helps that I now have the brainpower to focus on things other than show.

[picnicbird]

I am not sure what's going on, but as race+ethnicity is more or less my concentration in school, I have to say I am so pleasantly surprised (and relieved) to see that you know what you're talking about and you're treating this in a very level-headed way.

It's right to talk about it. I hope whatever this (sounds like a frustrating situation) is will be settled soon!

[puella_nerdii]

This, basically. Sadly, I don't think it's going to die down soon, but I hope I'm wrong on that count.

And thanks -- that sounds like such an interesting concentration! (My field's more gender and performance.) I've had to rethink my position on this one a lot, mostly because I realized that I was making it All About Me when it, in fact, is not All About Me.