Thoughts on women's fiction/narratives, horror, and romance. Also, on Dollhouse.

[prozacpark]

I've been thinking about women's fiction, and women's genres lately, specifically in the context of horror and romance. I was initially surprised to find out that horror was considered to be a women's genre, but then it clicked that of course it was. It has two features that seem to be common to women's fiction: 1). It actually has women as

Comments

[prozacpark]

Actually? How about Alpha as the Shadow Male and Agent Asshole Helo as the Light Male? Really, Dollhouse = Romance Novel! Especially the last episode.

[prozacpark]

Yes! Paul as a Doll! Please! I'm mostly all against Dolling people, but Paul's special brand of assholery totally reserves him a place in the Dollhouse.

I'm still sort of bored by all the dolls? Not having actual personalities really makes them hard to like.

[lyssie]

Every time someone mentions Dollhouse, I lose more faith in humanity. Thank god I never had much.

[prozacpark]

The show is pretty much what I expect from Joss at this point, but the fact that otherwise intelligent people just fail to see how problematic it is? Yeah.

One more episode, and then hopefully it dies.

[lyssie]

I'm sorry, btw, because I really need to stop having knee-jerk reactions to Dollhouse and ignoring what people are saying.

I find this essay somewhat fascinating, but also possibly over my head, because I just don't put that much thought into what I watch/read--

otoh, I really really agree with the part where you said romance novels gloss over men being awful, "because he loves her!" and that makes it ok. And, yes, on fandom's dissection of Kara/Sam and cheating and the problematic responses of "well, she just doesn't love him".

[prozacpark]

Sometimes, I wish I could put less thought into everything I read/watch. I'm sure I would be much less bitter over everything then.

And really, the whole "She doesn't love him" thing is not as rage-inducing if not for the fact that Lee treating Kara horribly actually is seen as prove of his love? He cheats on Dee, yes, but he punches Kara and implies she's a slut in public. To be honest, it's the calling her a slut part that gets me and not the punching (except in "Unfinished Business," where it's possibly shot in a way that pushes all my WRONG! buttons), but really, THAT IS PROVE OF HIS LOVE, FANDOM? Also, notice that Kara treating Lee badly doesn't get retconned as prove of her love as often, and the Kara/Lee shippers usually dislike her for doing so.

It's like...even if we're not in a Romance Novel universe, most people's perceptions of male/female relationships are still influenced by those tropes.

[abrakadabrah]

In other news, Paul continues to become more and more horrible and creepy. This week, he dumped Mellie so he could follow her to the Dollhouse and break in. We assume he wants to break in to rescue Mellie, but he's still entirely interested in Caroline/Echo. And then this is justified by him saying that he wants to save Mellie, but she's a sleeper agent and therefore more dangerous. This may have been a good explanation, but again...it feels more like he's trying to justify his bad choices than it does like good reasoning. It's not helped by the fact that when he goes to the Dollhouse and opens the coffin Mellie is in, he is all angst-cakes with "I can't save you!" But as soon as he discovers Caroline, he *smiles* with love. But you would be mad at Paul at this point no matter what he did. If he kept on sleeping with Mellie, you'd also be mad as hell

[prozacpark]

That's actually not true at all. Yes, he is a rapist so now he's as irredeemable for me as Spike was once he tried to rape Buffy, but does he have to continue to descend further into assholery with every episode? He could've chosen to save Mellie instead of Caroline, who is just a symbol to him and not really a person.

I'm not mad at him for breaking it off. But maybe he should've done that before raping her? Just saying.

I *wanted* Echo to be Rebecca. I really, really did. But while Rebecca was lost, trapped, and without an identity, she always, *always* had agency and a control of the choices she made. She made some bad choices, but they were always hers. Echo has no agency, no POV.

Postmodern? Paul is the very definition of the Modernist hero. So I would have to disagree.

[abrakadabrah]

That's actually not true at all. Yes, he is a rapist so now he's as irredeemable for me as Spike was once he tried to rape Buffy, but does he have to continue to descend further into assholery with every episode? He could've chosen to save Mellie instead of Caroline, who is just a symbol to him and not really a person. But Mellie is not real either - she's a construct. And more than that, she's now become the symbol of what he sees as his worst self. She wouldn't even know him in the pod

[prozacpark]

Adelle is totally a rapist, yes. I never did meta on it, so it didn't come up, but she's actually worse? In that she sees them in their doll state and is kind of their guardian. Which is why I no longer care for her, either.

But Mellie is not real either - she's a construct. And more than that, she's now become the symbol of what he sees as his worst self. She wouldn't even know him in the pod. True, Carolyn is just a symbol - but she's a symbol of a self he likes better.

That right there? You pretty much described the Modernist hero. He sees himself as the moral center of his universe and rejects the parts of him that displease him while embracing a Higher Self, which is kind of also...false. Because of this, modernist heroes often have a tendency to idolize/demonize the women in their lives. And really, it's a type that I can like when written well. Like Paul on "The Inside." Not so much here.

[prozacpark]

That's very interesting because we're both reacting to the same thing, but differently. This actually really disturbs me in terms of how many of our opinions are even our own and not influenced by/a reaction to all the crap female characters have been burdened with in fiction?

I can dislike it when women's issues are all attributed to insanity, but I find insane women themselves interesting? Admittedly, I also like insane men and suspect that I just have a thing for...insanity. ;)

I get so tired of being presented with some character who's entire motivation for being good at what they do is because of some deep, dark issue or wound in their psyche. Yeah, ditto. Like, sometimes, it can work to a degree, but fiction never fails to go to the failed cliche places with this trope. I usually like them to have been good at something on their own, and the issue just adding another layer to it. Or, actually, I like the issues better when they interfere with whatever they're good at

[prozacpark]

Yeah, I can't dislike Kara either and have insane amounts of love for her, but I am sometimes disturbed by the writers' perception of her, but my reading of her tends to be different. Ron Moore's take on Kara is disturbing, and I usually ignore it. And yes, Kara has so much going on in the present that her issues never bothered me. The episode where we found out in detail about her abusive mother was a bit much, and then they felt the need to give us one all about her father issues, too.

I wish I hadn't invested in the BSG plot ever. I would be much less bitter about the whole thing.

something tells me they would have let his behavior be explained away as "that's just how young men are" without associating it with emotional damage.I'm entirely sure that that would be the case, yes. But Kara's sexuality and her issues all have to be explained because otherwise, people might not like her

[artillie]

Mind if I metafandom this?

As for Dollhouse and Alpha (because I'm not going to touch the Other Issues with a fifty-foot pole)--holy jumped the gun on that one. I mean, it was out there that Alan Tudyk was going to play Alpha, but it's as if the good Mr. Whedon is expecting to be canceled after a season and so is trying to cram as much story as he can into 13 episodes.

[prozacpark]

Mind if I metafandom this?

Not at all. Link away. :)

I'm curious about your issues with the Other issues now!

But, yeah: On a narrative level (and not the feminist level), a huge issue with Dollhouse really is that I can't imagine how something like this would work long term. I mean, how long can they be trapped in the Dollhouse before it gets even duller than it already is? And if they break out and attack the organization from the outside, then it becomes a completely different show.

[artillie]

And linked.

My issues with the Other Issues are the same issues I have with talking about religion or politics at the dinner table. Or, you know, at all.

I can't think of any examples of shows that have dramatically and successfully switched tone--not that Dollhouse would be going to full of lulz to srs bzns. The first thing that comes to mind is Dark Angel, from S1 to S2, but it was still Evading the Bad Guys. Maybe Paul on the inside, having been wiped and turned into a doll, and Echo and Alpha on the outside? A reversal in their narratives.

(You know, Joss could just be trolling us all.)