Comments | prozacpark: Issues with Dollhouse, but mostly? With Buffy, last two seasons.

prozacpark

Issues with Dollhouse, but mostly? With Buffy, last two seasons.

Feb 23, 2009 14:15

So, um, this post started out as being a "Dollhouse" review, but it's now actually about the last two seasons of Buffy, gender issues in them, and what went wrong. For me, anyway.

I watched Dollhouse once this week with my sisters, and then again with meganbmoore. During the second viewing, for the most part, I had the window minimized while listening to the ( Read more... )

dollhouse, pop culture, women, buffy, joss whedon

Comments 16

frolicndetour February 23 2009, 22:22:55 UTC

I'm a horror fan. There's no genre I love better, possibly, and a good ghost story can make me happier than anything else. However, note that I HATE slasher movies.

Mm, yes. I like '70s horror. The Exorcist and Rosemary's Baby (talk about your subtext)... but I've never managed to sit through a slasher flick. Just no appeal whatsoever. And word on the hot girls running around in torn clothes with blood on them? A world of no.

What was it that Giles said? "I fear the subtext is rapidly becoming the text?" Perfectly encapsulates the last two seasons of Buffy (which never happened.)They took what had previously been a pretty intelligent and effective feminist metaphor (as well as a bunch of other things) and dumbed it way, way down. UGH, Caleb. It was like watching an after-school special for sociopaths. Hey, did you know that wanting to rape and mutilate women just for existing and being Other is wrong? Because it is ( ... )

prozacpark February 26 2009, 01:02:50 UTC

Really, I couldn't watch Firefly for the longest time because just looking at Mal reminded me of Caleb and the horrible plot associated with him. I hadn't repressed the last two seasons nearly enough back then.

See, normally? A ship like Kara/Leoben? Would be right up my alley, but it's exactly things like that that make me shy away from it. I enjoy their interaction, but I do think that it's problematic that they have set up a narrative structure where when Kara accepts her destiny, Leoben is in a position of saying, "I told you so." Which, in some way, justifies his abuse of her. Actually, not very unlike how they justified Socrata's abuse of her by giving her a special destiny. And yes, why do women's specialness/powers have to be tied down to weird forced sex metaphors?

And, of course, it's all very Hades/Persephone, which makes me love it platonically, but I'm disturbed by most romantic/shippy takes on Hades/Persephone, too.

distractedone February 23 2009, 23:27:37 UTC

Oh! I was waiting for your reaction on episode two. When I saw that episode, I totally thought, "prozacpark is totally going to hate this one! I can already hear her!"

UMMM...episode two was definitely much more disturbing than the first one.

prozacpark February 26 2009, 01:14:47 UTC

Ah! I hate being predictable! ;)

Also, why are you not watching Buffy instead?

I found the first one to be sort of entertaining. This one bored me, which is not a good sign.

distractedone February 28 2009, 00:37:44 UTC

"Buffy" SCARES me. The vampires in the show scare me. I can NOT watch that show alone, especially alone in my room! When I watched the first few episodes of Buffy, I turned my volume down for the SCARY parts.

Srsly. I am a baby.

ariadnequinn February 24 2009, 01:12:58 UTC

I'm a horror fan. There's no genre I love better, possibly, and a good ghost story can make me happier than anything else.Me too...although I have to admit that I have a soft spot for certain slasher-type films (namely the "Nightmare on Elm Street" series, which is part nostalgia - the third one was the first rated-R movie I ever saw [at the age of 8, while sleeping over a friend's house] - and part fascination with the idea of something coming after you in your dreams...how cool is that?). But, in general, I don't like gore for the sake of gore. Or violence for the sake of violence. I'm not beyond convincing that either can have its place in a story...but there has to be a reason for it ( ... )

prozacpark February 26 2009, 01:43:08 UTC

I love horror recs. Because while I love the genre, nearly 95% of it is utter crap. Now, it's mostly entertainingly bad crap, which is fun in its own way, but still.

Buffy is one of those shows that really needs to be watched in order because it's telling a long, arcy story where impact is best felt when watched in order.

I kind of like my feminist metaphors to be vague and metaphory, so Buffy's take on it worked for me. I just don't like metaphors, in general, to be too obvious and cliche.

I'm not a huge LOTR fan, but Eowyn was definitely my favorite LoTR character and I do remember rooting for her. I think I possibly enjoy the superhero feminism and the real women feminism both equally when done well.

abrakadabrah February 24 2009, 01:27:58 UTC

Yeah - I don't agree with everything you wrote and I pretty much love Season 6 because of Spike and Buffy. But I really dislike the fact that they started bashing us over the head to make us know that it was feminist. And I hated Caleb - the characterization was beyond hackneyed.

And also the conceptual unclarity of spreading the power around - I liked the mythic origins of being a slayer more while it was still mythic and not demythologized - it seemed more powerful.

And I'm hoping he won't do that with Dollhouse, but it doesn't look persuasive yet - bringing in all that misogyny - as you say, not on the metaphorical level but on the actual level - makes it rather a jarring experience. I wonder why that's the story he wants to tell. I think there's a potentially interesting story there - but not if he is going to play it straight out, the way it looks so far in part.

prozacpark February 28 2009, 01:19:48 UTC

The Slayer powers did work best when they were mythic. I get the symbolism of all the girls having it? But it still seem more special and interesting when there could only be one per generation.

And yes, Dollhouse does make me wonder why he's telling this story. I...could really like it if it's a story similar to "The Inside," of a person without an identity trying to find one. But I think Joss mentioned in some interviews that he was making a statement on prostitution or something? Which is totally uninteresting and makes everything more questionable.

(The comment has been removed)

prozacpark February 28 2009, 01:56:53 UTC

Exactly. Even when well done, rape plots just make me really uncomfortable and I would obsess over it for weeks, which is just depressing.

Out of curiosity, which movie was it?

I had many Joss issues after Buffy, but Firefly briefly made me love him again. But "Astonishing" and the crap he pulled with Emma and Kitty killed any love I had for him. I still feel compelled to watch "Dollhouse" to see exactly how many more issues he can bring in, but at this rate, I don't know if I'll be watching for long.