I kinda got sorta!broken!Loki from most of his scenes, actually, not straight-up megalomania; he kept saying it was too late to stop it, when Thor tried to talk him down, and TH did a good job of giving us arguably!desperate!crazy!eyes in his closeups. I decided fall from the Bifrost + in Chitauri/whatever hands = cracked + this is his only way out!!! Ruling would have been nice; but it was basically a side note.
... 'Cause he sure didn't try to get away very hard after the Hulk treated him as a rag doll, either. Might have been kind of a relief to get dragged back for Asgardian justice (where everything's familiar, at least, and he's had however many years to learn the ins and outs, and people still profess to love him, whatever he believes about that) than leave himself in the target sights after failing his mission. You know? Let the Avengers deal with their new foe, it's time to recoup and work up a fresh plot.
TH's acting was amazing, no two ways about it. That one moment, on the Tower, where Thor begs him to stop it, I honestly thought he might for a while. Like, give up, become an Avenger and make me the happiest fangirl on earth. And yeah, he does look pretty crappy for a long time there.
It's just that there's a definite change in his character between Thor and this movie, that's not explained in any way. He was suicidal the last time we saw him and now this. He doesn't actually know anything about the Avengers - because they don't exist when he starts stirring up trouble - but he causes trouble among them anyway, breaking them up. Whatever info he has from Clint doesn't cover that, so he's just willy nilly causing chaos and that seems disparate with the character, imo.
The Chitauti (?) are sort of... do they have a bsis in canon? Because at the very end I had a total, "The bad guy is Hellboy, WTF?" moment.
The Chitauri, I'm not sure, are like the proto-form of some alien comicverse menace? Their leader, not the red-faced guy but the talker, is listed in the credits as The Other, hilariously (because wow, I had no idea, not because the portrayal was funny) played by Alexis Denisof. *cough* Whedon *cough*. But folks at the theater seemed to think red-faced guy was a comicverse big-big-baddie named Thanos?
I did wonder how Loki knows what he knows about the Avengers; he wasn't on Earth that long. I guess I figured somebody else was feeding him intel - maybe all those SHIELD enemies Clint said they were collecting as goons. And all the not-noticing I figured was another side effect of the glowy stick of brainwash-folks-and-make-everyone-argue.
I know, I know; if it was a really good movie we wouldn't have to fill in these gaps, or say "maybe it'll be in the deleted 30 minutes of footage he said would be on the DVDs." But I guess I want to cut him slack. Because if Loki's still like this in the next Thor it will be a jarring tonal
Yeah, I saw the Alexis Denisof thing too when the credits rolled and had a total 'Whedon family, squee' moment. Loudly. Ahem.
Yeah, having to fill plot holes ourselves is not the way a good movie should go, but what would we write about, if the movie were perfect? I think I#d rather have a few kinks to fic.
Yes, I know that's why he stuck around. Question is: why didn't the others notice there was obviously something up? If a prisoner hold still, there's a chance he's got a plan.
I loved Banner. His 'secret' as much as the way he talked about the 'big Guy', the way he tries to keep them separate but they're obviously not, and he knows that, too, I think. It's amazing character work and MR might be my new favourite.
And the way he does work with the team, within limits, even though he's supposedly a mindless ragemonster. He totally like Tony, btw, did you notice that? He's pretty much the only one that doesn't get Hulk-slapped at one point.
They didn't notice because the plot didn't want them to. :) Simple as that. Plot is also why Whedon killed Coulson, so the Avengers would get - and stay - together. He can be a little obvious sometimes.
Yesterday? Oh great muppity Odin, yes. I know damn well I'm going to wear my first copy out, but Christmas will be upon us by then, so I can ask for another one...
I'm half tempted to download it now, but I saw a vid from that version and it's all crappy and I will not watch that movie in crap quality. Instead I'll be buying Thor and Hulk on DVD, since I don't have those yet, and demand back my other DVDs from a friend and have consolation movie marathons every weekend until I can buy the Avengers.
I agree with everything, though I just have to say...
Also, did we have the put the Nazi moment in there? Really? Seventy years and we're still not past that?
Yes. This is Marvel, so yes, yes we do. Also we as a species have really moved on from overt conquest of the planet due to superiority complexes (notice I said overt, but anyway) and so there was always going to be a comparison between Loki and Hitler at some point. We can stop making Hitler references when someone else tries to take over the world, so hopefully, never.
Well, almost everything. I got the sense that Loki had been terribly broken at some point after his fall from the Bifrost, and the version that we saw on screen was not... right, anymore. Also I tend to believe that he was planning to play a long game, and that at some point he'd planned to basically steal the bad guys for his own use without actually helping them out. Only he got interrupted.
Yeah, I agree on the Loki thing. But the movie should have explained that to us. We should not have to fill in character gaps ourselves. Even though they leave room for fanfiction
( ... )
Ah, I should have picked up from the context of your earlier comment that you were German, in which case I would have probably been a little more tactful. I certainly wasn't trying to say that Hitler was the only one- although yeah, rereading my comment, that's how it sounded- just that it was the last instance of "world" war which involved more than regional conflict. However, and I don't know if this helps any... as a non-German watching the movie, what I got out of that scene was exactly what you were saying about your family- that not all Germans were Nazis, and that it's not a guilt that an entire country should take on. "The first country Hitler invaded was his own
( ... )
Don't worry. I didn't take offense or anything. The subject in general just grates on me. Mostly because, well, that scene could have been in France. In England. In Russia. Anywhere. But of course is was Stuttgart.
It's not even about the guilt question. It's just... can't people let it rest? Just every now and then don't go down that road?
And yeah, Marvel is a bit one track. But Chris Evans in red gogo boots totally makes up for it. Really. ;-D
Thanos, or something, apprently. There's something in the other comment threads. He seems to be an established big bad. I only had Hellboy flashbacks. *shrugs*
The avengers is pretty much better then any movie I've seen in the past year. And I watch I lot of movies. The amount of fan service in it is absolutely unbelievable. Yeah Loki's characterization is a bit off, especially in context of some of the newer comic arcs, (the ultimates, dark avengers and such) but its Thanos if anyone can fuck Loki up it's him. And Loki had that whole I'm totally desperate thing going for him to explain.
The puny god ragdoll bit was perfect and I kinda think Loki was, with the Steve/Thor conversations, kinda done. Also Coulson's line "you lack conviction". Brilliant.
Also Banner, as played by Ruffalo, there are no words. Especially given how much the last hulk movies kinda sucked. In the beginning when it's him and Natasha in India, and her hands on the gun and he snaps-I was afraid. Thats how well written and acted that scene was. Also the "I'm always angry" line as he turns and puts his foot through the giant fish things head.
Yeah, Bruce is my new favourite and it's not just me. Have you been over to AO3. Bruce fic is sort of... exploding into existence and I want to lie down and roll around in it. Forever.:)
I haven't been out to AO3 in a couple days. Haven't read or written anything in a week. It's all horribly depressing. But Bruce's definitely my new favorite and I so wanted to just drop studying and squee over the fandom for days (possibly weeks) but I was like no. Stay strong and study for APs. But they're done now so I'm intending to disappear in to the great fandom void for at least a week.
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... 'Cause he sure didn't try to get away very hard after the Hulk treated him as a rag doll, either. Might have been kind of a relief to get dragged back for Asgardian justice (where everything's familiar, at least, and he's had however many years to learn the ins and outs, and people still profess to love him, whatever he believes about that) than leave himself in the target sights after failing his mission. You know? Let the Avengers deal with their new foe, it's time to recoup and work up a fresh plot.
(I will TOTES love that sequel, blame away!)
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It's just that there's a definite change in his character between Thor and this movie, that's not explained in any way. He was suicidal the last time we saw him and now this. He doesn't actually know anything about the Avengers - because they don't exist when he starts stirring up trouble - but he causes trouble among them anyway, breaking them up. Whatever info he has from Clint doesn't cover that, so he's just willy nilly causing chaos and that seems disparate with the character, imo.
The Chitauti (?) are sort of... do they have a bsis in canon? Because at the very end I had a total, "The bad guy is Hellboy, WTF?" moment.
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I did wonder how Loki knows what he knows about the Avengers; he wasn't on Earth that long. I guess I figured somebody else was feeding him intel - maybe all those SHIELD enemies Clint said they were collecting as goons. And all the not-noticing I figured was another side effect of the glowy stick of brainwash-folks-and-make-everyone-argue.
I know, I know; if it was a really good movie we wouldn't have to fill in these gaps, or say "maybe it'll be in the deleted 30 minutes of footage he said would be on the DVDs." But I guess I want to cut him slack. Because if Loki's still like this in the next Thor it will be a jarring tonal
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Yeah, having to fill plot holes ourselves is not the way a good movie should go, but what would we write about, if the movie were perfect? I think I#d rather have a few kinks to fic.
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I loved Banner. His 'secret' as much as the way he talked about the 'big Guy', the way he tries to keep them separate but they're obviously not, and he knows that, too, I think. It's amazing character work and MR might be my new favourite.
And the way he does work with the team, within limits, even though he's supposedly a mindless ragemonster. He totally like Tony, btw, did you notice that? He's pretty much the only one that doesn't get Hulk-slapped at one point.
Basically, I need that DVD. Yesterday.
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Yesterday? Oh great muppity Odin, yes. I know damn well I'm going to wear my first copy out, but Christmas will be upon us by then, so I can ask for another one...
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Totes.
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Also, did we have the put the Nazi moment in there? Really? Seventy years and we're still not past that?
Yes. This is Marvel, so yes, yes we do. Also we as a species have really moved on from overt conquest of the planet due to superiority complexes (notice I said overt, but anyway) and so there was always going to be a comparison between Loki and Hitler at some point. We can stop making Hitler references when someone else tries to take over the world, so hopefully, never.
Well, almost everything. I got the sense that Loki had been terribly broken at some point after his fall from the Bifrost, and the version that we saw on screen was not... right, anymore. Also I tend to believe that he was planning to play a long game, and that at some point he'd planned to basically steal the bad guys for his own use without actually helping them out. Only he got interrupted.
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It's not even about the guilt question. It's just... can't people let it rest? Just every now and then don't go down that road?
And yeah, Marvel is a bit one track. But Chris Evans in red gogo boots totally makes up for it. Really. ;-D
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LOVED it, all of it.
Who was the grinning creepy dude at the end?
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Glad you had fun. It's good for the soul. :)
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The puny god ragdoll bit was perfect and I kinda think Loki was, with the Steve/Thor conversations, kinda done. Also Coulson's line "you lack conviction". Brilliant.
Also Banner, as played by Ruffalo, there are no words. Especially given how much the last hulk movies kinda sucked. In the beginning when it's him and Natasha in India, and her hands on the gun and he snaps-I was afraid. Thats how well written and acted that scene was. Also the "I'm always angry" line as he turns and puts his foot through the giant fish things head.
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Any specific recommendations for fic?
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Recs... you could check out my AO3 bookmarks. I think I've added twenty new stories in the past 48 hours.
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