Post AWE Weekly Challenge #3

[ceria_taliesin]

It's Friday! Our second post AWE challenge is an invitation to share your opinion about the Flying Dutchman and its captain. Which means I need a spoilers cut. Hmm

Comments

[woolymonkey]

From watching AWE, I thought he was meant to be captain forever - or at least that that was the default, because in Pirates, there is always a work round, especially if Elizabeth wants one!
Then I saw what Ted and Terry have said about green flashes and such. Based on that, I could happily buy that he's out after 10 years, although that does raise the question of why Jack thought the job was a reasonable approximation of immortality.

[ceria_taliesin]

I agree, according to the movie it's forever. I just like hearing the ways around that. :)

[delle]

I was very bummed after my first viewing, because I was so sure being captain was forever. Then I read comments from Ted and Terry about (supposed?) cut scenes that spelt out basically if he is faithful to the job and she is faithful in her love that he's out after 10 years.

I usually perceive canon by what is on the screen, rather than writers (or actors, or production) intentions. But I needed that happy thought.

So I - and my kids - watched again VERY carefully in my 2nd viewing. And I have to say, regardless of writer intentions? The movie is VERY clear that it's forever. "One day ashore" and "the Dutchman must have a captain", yes?

Certainly those hints Ted and Terry mentioned are there - especially the "green flash = soul coming back from the dead". So it's possible - but strictly from movie canon, not probable as our dear Jack would say.

However, being a diehard Will girl and a devoted Will/Elizabeth girl, I'm still holding onto the 10 years thing for my in-process stories. And enough hints are there that Ted and Terry

[ceria_taliesin]

I usually perceive canon by what is on the screen, rather than writers (or actors, or production) intentions. But I needed that happy thought.

Yep yep, that's my take as well. I'm kinda hoping that after ten years they can pick a new captain and Will won't die.

[choose2live]

I agree with delle - like it or not (I happen to like it), Will's the Dutchman's Captain forever - or at least until someone finds his heart and stabs it (again). The movie was quite emphatic on this point, with precedent (Davy Jones has been captain for I don't know how long, but it sure was longer than ten years), secondary plotline (Jack seeking immortality via being captain, and him with no lover to free him after ten years of faithfulness), and details ("one day ashore every ten years," NOT "one day ashore after ten years and then you're free to go"; "the Dutchman must have a captain," "100 years before the mast" - why would a crewman have to serve a century when the captain only serves a decade?). I'm mostly echoing delleAs far as other options go... hard to say. Is Davy Jones dead? It's implied that he is, but he's absorbed into the sea (his lover) so I think imagination can play fast and loose with that. Does he go to the Locker, or someplace else? Is there a special place where CotFD go? The way I see it, though, you're either

[ceria_taliesin]

The way I see it, though, you're either Captain or you're dead, you don't come back to life

That's what I was afraid of, here's hoping to get around that in fiction.

Elizabeth may not be able to stay on the Dutchman while the Dutchman carries out her metaphysical duty of shuttling souls, but there's ample evidence that living people can come and go on the Dutchman.

Agreed, I'm going to assume she'll see him at sea, even if she (or Jack!) doesn't stay with him longer than a few hours or possibly a whole night.

[choose2live]

Just got back from seeing AWE again, and felt the need to revise my stance on the green flash: at the end of the film, when Will sails off into the horizon, he disappears into the green flash. Clearly, there it's not an instance of a soul coming back from the dead. Therefore, I think it loses all power as an argument that Will came back to life in the postscript.

Also, Bootstrap told Elizabeth explicitly that whoever stabs Jones' heart is "captain forever."

[captain_tatau]

Forever.
I think it was said very clearly several times during the movie and my opinion is based on that, I haven't read that Ted + Terry thing :-).

[ceria_taliesin]

I haven't read the T&T thing either, but I've heard enough about it that I'm curious.

[veronica_rich]

It's worth noting that Bill's comment to Will at the end is "one day ashore for ten years at sea - it's a steep price to pay for what's been done." He doesn't say "one day ashore for every ten years at sea." He doesn't say "ten years at sea, then one day ashore." He says "one day ashore, for ten years at sea" - and we immediately see Will ashore for his one day. That could easily be interpreted to mean "this one day ashore, then ten years" and then possibly an out.

[ceria_taliesin]

pretty icon

He doesn't say "one day ashore for every ten years at sea."

Oh, I like that. Thank you.