unfortunately another interesting topic i don't have time to chat onblue_russianApril 16 2007, 16:07:59 UTC
MOMENT IMPORTANT AT THE TIME - Sorry to keep bringing up the same moment, but I have to mention grunge, ie., "when punk broke." Because I was living outside Anglo-American culture at the time, it all happened without me really knowing about it. But when I came to the US in 1994, everything was different. (I wonder a lot about MTV, whether there was a moment, but again, I missed it personally so I can't say.)
NOT AS IMPORTANT IN HINDSIGHT - Not really, to tell the truth, but I actually think there is a pretty clear "continuum" out there if you investigate enough. And a continuum to some degree runs counter to the idea of particular moments where things change.
MOST IMPORTANT IN TEN YEARS - I think it must have been the original punk wave (Sex Pistols, Clash, etc.)
Re: unfortunately another interesting topic i don't have time to chat onblue_russianApril 16 2007, 16:11:14 UTC
It also occurs to me that the arrival of rap/hip-hop NEEDS to be accounted for - your comment above about "what other stuff were people claiming etc." Also clearly hugely important from "Walk This Way," maybe.
Re: unfortunately another interesting topic i don't have time to chat onblue_russianApril 16 2007, 16:18:59 UTC
And one final point: I really started as a pretty heavy Beatles obsessive, so I think the idea that "pop has a history" was something I had right away, just because their career was this huge development arc, and writers always liked to talk about who their influences were, and who they influenced afterward.
Re: unfortunately another interesting topic i don't have time to chat onfreakytiggerApril 16 2007, 16:31:02 UTC
Perhaps oddly (given the colossal impact of hip-hop), I didn't have a huge sense of its importance - I think because the development of it was quite under-the-radar in UK pop terms BUT there was usually rap of some sort in the charts from the time I started listening
( ... )
1. During my lifetime and at the time it was happening? I had no real idea of rap's struggle for mainstream acceptance and then domination because it was already hitting the charts well by the time i started listening. I'm going to have to say Acid House because it felt CLOSE (literally) so i could see the impact it was having for myself to an extent, and because of how it sounded (new, different rules etc.), media controversy etc.
2. I never though of Britpop as 'important' as such so can't say that. It's still too early to tell for a lot of 00s stuff. I can't really think of anything.
3. V tough because I was listening to mainstream radio very fixed on the present. I suppose Punk in the UK tho - felt like something that had already happened and ended but there was still an aftermath to experience in what was seen and heard.
salad of all my salad daysdubdobdeeApril 16 2007, 16:50:25 UTC
i had a very clear idea of rock-as-history when i second came to it, which was late -- 14 or 15. I grew up quite isolated in the v.rural country (hi robin!) and somehow apart from my mum and dad's love of the beatles and simon and garfunkel and haha andrew lloyd webber neither pop nor rock really impinged, apart from a liminal fascination with glam (bolan/slade) as sexy allure/threat
when i decided i wanted to be interested i had loads of catching up to do so i. i bought the "nme book of rock" and studied it v.closely ii. in it i discovered that one TONY PALMER had educated himself in rock by asking his friends what where the best alBUMS and listening to the top ten and then (cheekily if i am korrekt abt this!) becoming a ROCK CRITIC in a sunday paper and WRITING A TV SERIES about it iii. so then i too conducted 1xmassive LJ POLL of all my school chums and tabulated the results (which i may still have somewhere) and borrowed tapes to listen to the winners and the outliers and MARKED EVERYTHING OUT OF FIVE
Re: salad of all my salad daysdubdobdeeApril 16 2007, 16:54:12 UTC
"listening to the top ten" -- i mean the top ten of the alBUMS his friends suggested, not the charts (and his website suggests it was the SPECTATOR he was rock critic for)
Re: salad of all my salad daysjeff_worrellApril 16 2007, 17:16:03 UTC
NME Book (encyclopedia?) of Rock definitely a key tome - along with the very first Paul Gambaccini "Grebtest Albums of All Time" paperback - in terms of attempts to shape a history of rock I think. For UK audiences anyway; there may have been rival/earlier/better books in the US.
I came across both of these in my local reference library, and spent quite a few hours perusing them aged 15. There was a third book, which I can't remember the title of, that was more like a directory of musicians and laboriously listed every pop record that each one was credited as playing on - with catalogue numbers and everything! Michael Brecker's entry was very long, even circa 1980!
to answer 1. PUNK ROCK -- i recall while still in the "catching up" phase (which took some time) reading about the BILL GRUNDY EXPLOSION in the shropshire star (which printed it verbatim) and being most perturbed by the apparent disfavour shown towards BEETHOVEN!!! and imagining in my head discussing this w. j.rotten and PUTTING HIM RIGHT!
anyway a few months later i heard the larf at the start of anarchy and fell totally head over heels in love w.lydon, and the unfolding of that story (pistols; punk; aftermath) was more important to me than my own life till i wd say abt 1983, when i started writing myself and began the glide into a. disenchantment and b. working out my own voice (these both took AGES) (in fact CONCRETE SO AS TO SELF DESTRUCT is probably when i negotiated full freedom from that story
1. Grime -- Although I ws v distant listener, I still feel this in some way and that the seeds have been sown for something special.
2. not sure, nothing comes to mind right now (I'm sure many would say Grime).
3. Became strongly aware (hand on shoulder) of music history (pop or otherwise, I suppose I can never answer q on poptimists on just pop music) sometime in the late 90s. In prev 10 years it probably would have to be the stuff written in "Blissed out", but I never really thought of it as important, just some v good bands, wriiten about in a very convincing manner. The actual answer (today, stuff I ws beginnign to discover then) would have to be the avant-garde classical stuff by the likes of Finnissy, Ferneyhough, Dench, Barlow and the like, but the history of that stuff has yet to be written.
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NOT AS IMPORTANT IN HINDSIGHT - Not really, to tell the truth, but I actually think there is a pretty clear "continuum" out there if you investigate enough. And a continuum to some degree runs counter to the idea of particular moments where things change.
MOST IMPORTANT IN TEN YEARS - I think it must have been the original punk wave (Sex Pistols, Clash, etc.)
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2. I never though of Britpop as 'important' as such so can't say that. It's still too early to tell for a lot of 00s stuff. I can't really think of anything.
3. V tough because I was listening to mainstream radio very fixed on the present. I suppose Punk in the UK tho - felt like something that had already happened and ended but there was still an aftermath to experience in what was seen and heard.
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when i decided i wanted to be interested i had loads of catching up to do so
i. i bought the "nme book of rock" and studied it v.closely
ii. in it i discovered that one TONY PALMER had educated himself in rock by asking his friends what where the best alBUMS and listening to the top ten and then (cheekily if i am korrekt abt this!) becoming a ROCK CRITIC in a sunday paper and WRITING A TV SERIES about it
iii. so then i too conducted 1xmassive LJ POLL of all my school chums and tabulated the results (which i may still have somewhere) and borrowed tapes to listen to the winners and the outliers and MARKED EVERYTHING OUT OF FIVE
Reply
Reply
I came across both of these in my local reference library, and spent quite a few hours perusing them aged 15. There was a third book, which I can't remember the title of, that was more like a directory of musicians and laboriously listed every pop record that each one was credited as playing on - with catalogue numbers and everything! Michael Brecker's entry was very long, even circa 1980!
Reply
Reply
to answer 1. PUNK ROCK -- i recall while still in the "catching up" phase (which took some time) reading about the BILL GRUNDY EXPLOSION in the shropshire star (which printed it verbatim) and being most perturbed by the apparent disfavour shown towards BEETHOVEN!!! and imagining in my head discussing this w. j.rotten and PUTTING HIM RIGHT!
anyway a few months later i heard the larf at the start of anarchy and fell totally head over heels in love w.lydon, and the unfolding of that story (pistols; punk; aftermath) was more important to me than my own life till i wd say abt 1983, when i started writing myself and began the glide into a. disenchantment and b. working out my own voice (these both took AGES) (in fact CONCRETE SO AS TO SELF DESTRUCT is probably when i negotiated full freedom from that story
2. no! (i am very full of myself)
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2. not sure, nothing comes to mind right now (I'm sure many would say Grime).
3. Became strongly aware (hand on shoulder) of music history (pop or otherwise, I suppose I can never answer q on poptimists on just pop music) sometime in the late 90s. In prev 10 years it probably would have to be the stuff written in "Blissed out", but I never really thought of it as important, just some v good bands, wriiten about in a very convincing manner. The actual answer (today, stuff I ws beginnign to discover then) would have to be the avant-garde classical stuff by the likes of Finnissy, Ferneyhough, Dench, Barlow and the like, but the history of that stuff has yet to be written.
Reply
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